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German coalition government collapses

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Re: German coalition government collapses

#51

Post by [deleted] »

blubberblase42 wrote: post #39
gndk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another German, I fully agree about the political landscape in Germany being FUBAR. I'm an entrepreneur with a small business and the FDP is closest to my personal views in theory. In reality, they are just a bit lighter shade of green-socialism than the other parties. Lindner's paper is a joke. Germany needs much more radical changes than he proposed to ensure a prosperous future, but even his very tame suggestio…

> My payment for public healthcare is also at the maximum around 1k€/month and similar wage taxes [...] > and found out that if I stopped working and instead just got married and had 1-2 kids, I'd have more income after taxes than now That's not possible. Either you lied or didn't fill out the Bürgergeld calculator correctly. If you make enough money to get to the Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze so you pay the maximum of…

[deleted]

Re: German coalition government collapses

#52

Post by gndk »

yallpendantools wrote: post #49

I have a tangential question, especially to the native Germans in this thread. I've been living in Germany for a while now and have been trying to understand German politics in that time, including this whole concept of coalition governments and the crisis the Ampel is facing. Due to the latter, I came across this: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-could-face-snap-election/a-704... In this article are statements such as…

> How can a chancellor expect voters in fresh elections to bolster their chancellorship, just right after losing a vote of confidence?

I'd say in general, because his party has gained in the polls since the original election that put him in office.

In Brandt's case, he probably indeed thought that voters would reward him for this "political flex" and selflessness for the benefit of the country. Asking for the vote and thereby risking his own career, but also resolving the stalemate in government after they had their majority dramatically reduced.

I'm guessing that Scholz has a similar idea, but with how much the SPD already lost in polls since the last election, I don't see it going well for them and him. In fact, a majority of people are very unhappy with the government and have been in favor of new elections for months now. His plan of getting "critical" bills passed before Christmas with this minority government won't work. Opposition parties would be suicidal to work with him. So I'd say, the longer Scholz waits, the worse the SPD results will be. He needs to ask for the vote immediately, not in 2 months.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#53

Post by tharkun__ »

Phelinofist wrote: post #2

As a German I'm quite happy with this, because the coalition was doomed to fail from the start. On that note, I read the paper of Lidner and IMHO he has good points. Germany does not have an issue with income but with spending. We spend way too much for social stuff, especially pensions. The idea proposed by the SDP would fuck every following generation over pretty hard. And to loose the debt break to funnel that mon…

    We spend way too much for social stuff, especially pensions
Germany has a problem with pensions in particular but it isn't fixable without abandoning what Germany stands for. At least for another few generations.

Germany told everyone that they needn't worry about their pensions. The government has got your back. We take care of it.

Norbert Bluem - "Your pension is safe!"

Shortly after they introduced legislation that would make pensioners pay tax on their pension income. Something that was "not a thing" before. They also basically told those people that would now have to pay tax on their pension income that they "should've had private pension plans already anyway".

Oh and they introduced multiple ways to help insurance companies steal people's money. "Riester Renter" and such. Not a good deal at all. Oh and there's no way to save money in a tax advantaged way without using insurance companies. No self-serve investment 401k or RRSP. It's all employer and insurance tied.

Way to fuck over your population.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#54

Post by macintux »

klipklop wrote: post #45
nilsherzig wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Trump's followers raid the capitol last time (with his approval)? Seems unstable from the outside

At no point did those Jan6 people have the ability to actually overthrow the US government. Let's not exaggerate their ability to take over all US armed forces and government operations. Jan6 was more a barnacle on the leviathan that is the US government.

They absolutely had the opportunity to give the president an excuse to stay in power.

“The electoral ballots have been compromised, Congress is in disarray with its leadership killed. I’m staying in office for the duration of this emergency, and the states will decide on a process to select new electors, or the House of Representatives will elect the next president per its Constitutional authority.”

Re: German coalition government collapses

#55

Post by jalapenos »

probably_wrong wrote: post #25

If the future German Chancellor is here, here's my proposal for your new campaign: "We choose to build one million affordable apartments in four years, not because it's easy but because it's hard". It may not solve all of Germany's problems but at least you'll energize the construction sector, alleviate the housing crisis, learn how to finish a construction project on time and you'll have to remove some bureaucracy t…

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people.

Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb?

It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and building hospitals etc.

But that would imply something about these people that they definitely are not. Ruled by the worst among us.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#57

Post by jltsiren »

pc86 wrote: post #11
killjoywashere wrote: post #9

So, destabilized democracies seems to be the theme of the early 21st century: the UK (Brexit), the US (twice) and now rumbles from Germany. Great

What is unstable about the US?

In a stable democracy, whenever there are elections, the losers accept that the elections were fair and they lost. If there are reasons to believe that the elections were not fair, or if the losers refuse to admit that the elections were fair and they lost, the system is unstable.

Peaceful transition of power is the most important factor in the long-term stability of any system of governance. Whenever a leader loses legitimacy or dies, there must be a process to select a successor. If the outcome of the process is contested, the system is at a high risk of collapsing in the power struggles of its elites. It's far more common for a state to fail due to internal power struggles than external threats.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#58

Post by ahartmetz »

the5avage wrote: post #4

As a german imo the real problem is that we replaced reasoning with ideology. There are sometimes complex connections between cause and effect. It is not enough to just have the right intention.

"Gesinnungsethik" - We had the purest ideas, never mind the results. A real scourge. For some reason, it seems to be most popular with those with the highest education and the corresponding parties. Intelligent people doing stupid things on the regular, that takes ideology.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#59

Post by tharkun__ »

gndk wrote: post #8
Phelinofist wrote: post #2

As a German I'm quite happy with this, because the coalition was doomed to fail from the start. On that note, I read the paper of Lidner and IMHO he has good points. Germany does not have an issue with income but with spending. We spend way too much for social stuff, especially pensions. The idea proposed by the SDP would fuck every following generation over pretty hard. And to loose the debt break to funnel that mon…

As another German, I fully agree about the political landscape in Germany being FUBAR. I'm an entrepreneur with a small business and the FDP is closest to my personal views in theory. In reality, they are just a bit lighter shade of green-socialism than the other parties. Lindner's paper is a joke. Germany needs much more radical changes than he proposed to ensure a prosperous future, but even his very tame suggestio…

    enormous exit taxes
Huh? Can you speak more about that?

    much of the western world in a similarly bad state
That is the real crux. The only chance so to speak is to go to a western country that's in better state, though it's not necessarily gonna be a good state.

    The US honestly seems like the best option right now
That probably depends on various things. Are you a white male with the right job? Not too bad. Are you male and the wrong job or you might like other men? Much less good. Are you female or non-white? You may want to reconsider. Not that the AfD isn't gonna be problematic in those regards but the US is definitely going into a bad direction that way.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#60

Post by ahartmetz »

macintux wrote: post #54
klipklop wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point did those Jan6 people have the ability to actually overthrow the US government. Let's not exaggerate their ability to take over all US armed forces and government operations. Jan6 was more a barnacle on the leviathan that is the US government.

They absolutely had the opportunity to give the president an excuse to stay in power. “The electoral ballots have been compromised, Congress is in disarray with its leadership killed. I’m staying in office for the duration of this emergency, and the states will decide on a process to select new electors, or the House of Representatives will elect the next president per its Constitutional authority.”

...or just permanent state of emergency, and voila. Very common way to do the democracy to dictatorship transition. "Many such cases"
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