Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 377 posts

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#51

Post by wslh »

Based on this, I'd love to brainstorm here on HN about what a next-generation Excel could look like, one that keeps Excel’s core strengths without expanding into database like features found in tools like Airtable. Here are a few ideas:

1. Clear Separation between UI/UX and Backend: By separating the user interface from backend processes—perhaps as a module or library—Excel could maintain its clean, familiar interface while supporting more complex calculations and data handling in the background. This concept is somewhat akin to “Microsoft Excel Services.”

2. Multi-Language Formula Support: Similar to how VSCode supports multiple programming languages, Excel could allow users to choose between languages for cell formulas. Many users are comfortable with the current formula syntax, but it feels outdated, and even Google Sheets has (obviously?) largely replicated this old model. Allowing for different languages, while keeping the Directed Acyclic Graph (DAG) structure, could enable more advanced and flexible workflows.

3. Enhanced Data Types and Representations: Cells or groups of cells could support stronger data types, richer formatting, and custom representations, like embedded charts.

4. Integrated Data Connectivity: Excel could come with built-in tools to connect to external data sources and export data in structured formats, perhaps managed with an external orchestrator. I know you can do this with Excel and some other tools but I would like to just mark a cell and indicating that it can be consumed in a specific endpoint.

5. No artificial limits to the number of columns and rows.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#52

Post by AnonC »

throwaway106382 wrote: post #16

I’ve only ever used Libre(open) Office Calc since I’ve never paid for or bothered to pirate office before. What can Excel do that Calc can’t? I’ve never done anything crazy heavy with it, but functions and stuff work fine for me I guess.

I use Calc on my personal machine.

> What can Excel do that Calc can’t?

For one, a working copy paste. Seriously, I’ve lived with a copy paste bug in LibreOffice Calc (Windows) for years (it wasn’t yet fixed as of a few months ago). It will either paste an older copy or not paste anything even though I just hit Ctrl+C (sometimes multiple times) within Calc. This is one of the most irritating things about Calc.

Fonts and formatting is another thing that Calc miserably fails at in relation to copy paste. Multiple cells will look very different even though the font, size, etc., will appear the same in the dropdowns below the menus (when these cells are in focus). LibreOffice Calc, in many ways, portrays the worst of what one would expect from an open source project (I say this as a supporter/donor of Document Foundation).

The other part about what Excel can do that Calc can’t is that Microsoft (at least with the MS365 subscription version) has been adding more functions to improve older functions and features. I don’t remember everything, but SEQUENCE and XLOOKUP are two functions that come to mind on this aspect. LibreOffice Calc lags behind Excel on functions by several years.

LibreOffice Calc, though it’s a lot newer/younger than Excel, also has ~weird~ different keyboard shortcuts compared to Excel (e.g. adding a new line within a cell is Ctrl+Enter whereas it’s Alt+Enter in Excel; there are many more like this).

Nevertheless, I use Calc because I can’t bother to pay Microsoft and since Excel might be the only application that could be of value to me in its Office offerings (MS Word is total crap, PowerPoint isn’t as keyboard friendly as I’d like it to be, and Outlook is another total piece of crap).

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#53

Post by [deleted] »

hotsauceror wrote: post #17
standardUser wrote: post #6

I have several extremely complex spreadsheets that have reached a breaking point because "the maximum number of fonts has been exceeded". There's like 8 fonts being used at most. The problem is, I don't have an alternative piece of software that can maintain the other very complicated formatting, let alone import it. And it now starts to revert formatting randomly throughout the spreadsheets. It's a widely known prob…

I must admit, of all the stories I’ve heard about Excel spreadsheets being “this one goes up to eleven” in their complexity, “too many fonts” is a new one. Perhaps you could use an alternative differentiator for your data presentation? I’m morbidly curious to hear more about this scenario.

[deleted]

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#54

Post by ethbr1 »

hotsauceror wrote: post #17
standardUser wrote: post #6

I have several extremely complex spreadsheets that have reached a breaking point because "the maximum number of fonts has been exceeded". There's like 8 fonts being used at most. The problem is, I don't have an alternative piece of software that can maintain the other very complicated formatting, let alone import it. And it now starts to revert formatting randomly throughout the spreadsheets. It's a widely known prob…

I must admit, of all the stories I’ve heard about Excel spreadsheets being “this one goes up to eleven” in their complexity, “too many fonts” is a new one. Perhaps you could use an alternative differentiator for your data presentation? I’m morbidly curious to hear more about this scenario.

Not parent, but in my spreadsheets fonts map to certainty ranges.

Serifs in increasing somberness for the most concrete numbers, sans for everyday estimates, and papyrus whenever I just toss random numbers in.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#55

Post by breckognize »

MostlyStable wrote: post #24

I don't need 95% of excel's features, and it does a lot of things that I don't want or need. But I have yet to find something that gets rid of most of the features that I don't want while keeping the things I do (which almost entirely revolve around just viewing simple .csv data files. Primarily I want searching, sorting, and filtering, and the ability to quickly get sums/means of selected cells would be nice (althou…

You should check out Row Zero (https://rowzero.io). We launched on HN earlier this year. Our CSV handling is the best on the market.

You can import multi GB csvs, we auto infer your format, and land your data in a full-featured spreadsheet that supports filter, sort, ctrl-F, sharing, graphs, the full Excel formula language, native Python, and export to Postgres, Snowflake, and Databricks.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#56

Post by vlovich123 »

dartharva wrote: post #4
vlovich123 wrote: post #2

Quotes from people 30 and above which sounds about right. Is anyone these days growing up using Excel over Google Sheets? You used to have to pirate Excel and Google just gives it away for free with a free email account.

Excel leaves GSheets and all its alternatives in the dust in terms of performance and stability. I used to maintain MIS trackers in Google Sheets once, and when my company made the inevitable shift to MS Suite I saw an immediate improvement. FWIW I'm 25.

I think you’re talking about it in a professional environment. That won’t matter if the people are growing up on GSheets today & demand that tool from their employer. Very old tale in SW.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#57

Post by vlovich123 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #10
vlovich123 wrote: post #2

Quotes from people 30 and above which sounds about right. Is anyone these days growing up using Excel over Google Sheets? You used to have to pirate Excel and Google just gives it away for free with a free email account.

I love GSheets for convenience. But as soon as you're doing anything large and complex, GSheets might as well not even exist. It's simply not viable.

GSheets is the good enough factor and the collaborative features were baked in from the start. I feel like MS struggles a bit in that respect. Look at the instructions for collaborating in Excel: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/collaborate-on-ex...

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#58

Post by timbit42 »

AnonC wrote: post #52
throwaway106382 wrote: post #16

I’ve only ever used Libre(open) Office Calc since I’ve never paid for or bothered to pirate office before. What can Excel do that Calc can’t? I’ve never done anything crazy heavy with it, but functions and stuff work fine for me I guess.

I use Calc on my personal machine. > What can Excel do that Calc can’t? For one, a working copy paste. Seriously, I’ve lived with a copy paste bug in LibreOffice Calc (Windows) for years (it wasn’t yet fixed as of a few months ago). It will either paste an older copy or not paste anything even though I just hit Ctrl+C (sometimes multiple times) within Calc. This is one of the most irritating things about Calc. Fonts…

I use LibreOffice on Linux and don't have any copy/paste or fonts and formatting issues like you are describing. I wouldn't be surprised if such bugs get fixed more quickly on Linux because Linux users don't have an easy way to use Excel, while the vast majority of Windows users do use Excel so there are fewer LibreOffice for Windows users complaining.

Excel does have more functions but 90% of people don't need those. If you do, you do.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#59

Post by baq »

nocman wrote: post #50
baq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve used Excel and Calc and the short answer is ‘everything’. Excel is faster, more reliable and has a much bigger community. Calc is ok if you want to work with small spreadsheets and don’t care about the occasional bug.

not the parent, but 'everything' is a mostly unhelpful answer. A few important concrete examples would be much more interesting. In fairness, you did somewhat, but I would be interested in some more details.

I mean this literally: Everything you can do in Calc, Excel is better at in either UX or performance, usually both. Even typing formulas in cells is snappier in Excel.

Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

#60

Post by baq »

vlovich123 wrote: post #56
dartharva wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel leaves GSheets and all its alternatives in the dust in terms of performance and stability. I used to maintain MIS trackers in Google Sheets once, and when my company made the inevitable shift to MS Suite I saw an immediate improvement. FWIW I'm 25.

I think you’re talking about it in a professional environment. That won’t matter if the people are growing up on GSheets today & demand that tool from their employer. Very old tale in SW.

Employers will tell them that their serious sheets only work in excel and it’s similar enough that they’ll figure it out and they’ll be right on both counts.
Post reply on HN