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2008: My year of living smaller

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Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#51

Post by sc »

seano wrote: post #36
sc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you never go through 10 $10 knives and "save money", you lose out in time and happiness (dull blades perform poorly, and every day you prepare food is wasted time with a poor knife, and a blow to your own mood, because dull blades are more apt to slip and cut you, mar your food, and generally put you in a fowl mood). If you don't cook, though, no worries.

You can get a decent knife for $10 and I've honestly never had a knife put me in a fowl[sic] mood.

Good catch ;) My thinking was revolving around cooking.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#52

Post by jonknee »

jcl wrote: post #49
jonknee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you either don't use knives very much or haven't used a really nice one. I use a chef's knife every day, having a good one does not make me a sucker. It's like paying for the leather option when buying a car--it's not essential, but it's damn nice to have. The knife's a lot cheaper too :).

Coincidentally enough, this conversation has come up on HN before, and the consensus was that professional chefs actually use knives that cost around $30; $100 knives are for people who want expensive knives that are functionally indistinguishable from $30 ones. It's more like paying for a "free-range" leather option when buying a car. :) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=269945

I commented there too :). I have the knife that Cooks Illustrated recommended, the Forschner. It's a good knife, worth the $25. Probably worth more, but it's not remarkable. I also have a Shun that's the same size and it's an amazing knife. Priced as such too, it's around $100. The differences are subtle, but because the Shun is perfectly balanced it's not hard to notice. My chef friends love it. Novice cooks who pick it up immediately notice something different. It's a very well crafted tool. Switch the prices and I'd still say the same thing, I'm all about getting a bargain.

If we're doing car comparisons, it's like a Camry versus a Lexus. The Lexus can't get you anywhere that the Camry can't, but you'll enjoy yourself more.

That said, I'm sure there are expensive knives out there that are simply shit. Price is a marketing technique sometimes. But there are real gems out there too. If I had to buy over again, I'd still get a Shun.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#53

Post by h34t »

When buying material goods, I think it we may be mistaken and shortsighted to only consider the purchase price and the satisfaction it will add to our own lives.

What about negative externalities, like the future cost of having fewer resources to use for more important purposes, environmental degradation and rehabilitation, and the cost of dumping/recycling after use? These are all real costs of every purchase you make, but often not "included" in the price.

Living on less leaves more scarce resources for use by others whether now or in the future, and sends less crap to landfills. Label me a moralizer if you like, but I think it is smart for society to encourage individuals to think beyond themselves. That capitalism has proven incredibly effective at driving innovation and efficiency does not mean we should defend its weaknesses as well as its strengths (better to work hard at mitigating them, to minimize the total overhead of the system).

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#54

Post by noonespecial »

endtwist wrote: post #5

Though this article isn't all that well written, it brings up what seems to be a (very good) trend lately: people exploring the idea of living with less. I'm only a college student right now, and already have limited expenses, but I've been exploring the idea of reducing the amount of things I own; a more minimalist lifestyle. I've realized something that Jelliffe points out towards the end of his article: "Simplicit…

The important thing to remember about $100 knives is that if this is all that is available, only certain people can have knives at all.

The really great thing about the "cheap asian manufacturing revolution" is that it means that nearly everyone can have a whole bunch of household goods that they may not have had before.

My grandfather had to pay nearly a months salary for a circular saw in 1958. I now have and use this saw all the time. Its so well made that my children will likely use it as well. I didn't get the saw until he died. Before that I had a $30 "harbor freight" saw. It was awful but at least I could have a saw at all. It certainly allowed me to fully appreciate the good one.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#55

Post by ahoyhere »

Chocobean wrote: post #47
ahoyhere wrote: post #32

I read this essay yesterday (thanks, HN! my addiction pays off!) and got to thinking. I used to live in a prosperous, expensive, beautiful, poorly kept up 1900s suburb of Washington DC called Takoma Park. I had downsized to a 500 sq ft apartment that I fell in love with -- it had such great design, craftmanship, and big trees outside every window, so idyllic (sigh). My wooden deck, out in the trees, was far bigger th…

i suspect getting married had something to do with it. I used to buy tonnes and tonnes of books, collected soundtracks, assembled troops of figurines and model kit mecha units...etc. But somehow I've become like you as well -- I'd much rather spend 20 bucks on dinner and a movie at home cuddled up with the spouse than another CD or DVD. I married young (22) so I should still be in the prime years of blowing away mone…

Don't think so, Chocobean. I've lived with guys for years and it didn't change it at all, regardless of their (very varied) spending habits. And when I lived with this one, too.

I'm 100% sure it's a cultural/environmental difference.

Also, I'm not talking about hobby supplies or stuff I might have a real reason to actually want, either. I could drop $200 at Target without even breaking a sweat. Or buying fun things.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#56

Post by anthonyrubin »

MikeCapone wrote: post #17

As long as it's a personal choice, it's fine. The problem with this 'movement' is when it tries to impose its choices on others.

I agree that a specific lifestyle should not be forced on others. Unfortunately, many of the costs of the average American lifestyle are externalized through our government. We are all forced to pay those costs.

Examples:

* subsidies which allow extremely cheap processed "food"

* tax funds used to pay for sports stadiums

* tax breaks for energy companies

* tax funds used for environmental cleanup

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#58

Post by ojbyrne »

endtwist wrote: post #5

Though this article isn't all that well written, it brings up what seems to be a (very good) trend lately: people exploring the idea of living with less. I'm only a college student right now, and already have limited expenses, but I've been exploring the idea of reducing the amount of things I own; a more minimalist lifestyle. I've realized something that Jelliffe points out towards the end of his article: "Simplicit…

Your knife comparison is interesting because of the current really low interest rates. The IRR of the $100 knife is probably more competitive with the 10 $20 knives right now, compared to a couple of years ago. It seems conceivable to me that low interest rates would encourage people to buy a few quality items rather than a lot of crappy ones.
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