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Sortfolio lives

37signals.com

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Re: Sortfolio lives

#51

Post by leif »

moe wrote: post #48
tptacek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At grave risk of sounding even more patronizing than I usually do, let me try to help you with something: HN people spend a lot of time arguing with each other, often about nonsense or trivia (hey, myself included). In those arguments, it is very normal to say "I have trouble believing X is true" or "I have a hard time believing Y". And while it's not the most polite way to express disagreement, it's more annoying th…

Thanks for your comment. Honestly, I just wrote what I had on my mind that moment, without much meta-thinking. You are probably right, in hindsight should at least have phrased it less direct. However, without disregarding your concern: Should I refrain from posting at all when what I have to say boils down to "I don't believe your story"? Would you also have reacted to a politely phrased comment saying the same thin…

Yes, you should.

It is not anyone's job to cure you of your misconceptions. "Prove it!" are the two most ignorant and wasteful words we have. When someone actually involved with a situation tries to assuage your irrational fears anyway, and all you have to say is "I don't believe you, even though I have nothing pertinent to offer except the speculation I rode in on," you're being stubborn, ignorant, and an ass. If you have something to add, some tangible counter, then by all means, offer it up for review. But otherwise, you should remain silent or gracious.

For the record, I disclaim any interest in this actual story, beyond the fact that people are getting so damn riled up about it. The metastory is riveting.

Re: Sortfolio lives

#52

Post by dylanhassinger »

I think 37s is well within their rights to do this however they wanted. But still feels lame, how it all went down.

Current sortfolio customers got told clearly, 37s doesn't care about their business. Users of other ones of 37s' 'second-tier' products got a warning shot: your tool could be shut down or sold off any day. 37s hasn't revealed the new buyer, and appear to be hands off from here on out.

Just seems like a lot of value has been lost here. I think a better way to go would have been trying to find a strategic partner, and taking a longterm equity stake. Or bundling up Sortfolio, the 37s Job Board and The Deck into a new advertising company, with a CEO who will grow it. Something where the handoff can grow the legacy, instead of 37s washing their hands.

Instead Sortfolio lives, 37s got their money, but the whole thing feels icky. my 2 cents, no conspiracy theory

Re: Sortfolio lives

#53

Post by wilschroter »

dhh wrote: post #16
shazow wrote: post #10

There were so many unanswered questions in the Flippa posting and the HN "peanut gallery" that it makes me feel like 37signals was never looking for new buyers. Perhaps they already had a buyer in mind and just needed some negotiation leverage or wanted some free publicity. I imagine people who were genuinely interested in bidding for Sortfolio feel a bit cheated with this announcement coming out of the blue.

Here's another wild theory: The buyers contacted us directly, got the answers to the questions they sought, and closed the deal. Also, this is not out of the blue. We lost interest in considering all sorts of complicated deals a while back. So we told everyone that the price was $480K and that the deadline for closing a deal was July 1st: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3172-sortfolio-going-once-goi... So there was re…

For as many sales that exist behind closed doors with b/s valuations, here's a few guys who used standard metrics (sales, gasp!) for valuing their company and made multiple attempts to sell it properly.

How about this? Nice job guys. Congrats on sticking to your guns and getting the price you felt was fair.

I would have sold for less.

Re: Sortfolio lives

#54

Post by j_s »

ForrestN wrote: post #2

Wow! From DHH in the comments, it appears it did sell for the full asking price. Very curious to know more about the new owners. Buying a business outright and then running it isn't a scenario that gets covered very often on the startup behind-the-scenes circuit. Here's hoping we get some follow-up posts about how it goes for the new owners on SVN.

Perhaps not quite the same scale, but do check out the story of Rob Walling's acquisition of HitTail, still being discussed regularly on their podcast:

The Inside Story of a Small Startup Acquisition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3511437

http://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/episodes/episode-83-hi...

Re: Sortfolio lives

#55

Post by Sortfolio »

I'm part of the team that bought Sortfolio.

We'll be doing a more formal announcement and proper introductions soon, but there are a couple of things we wanted to add to this discussion.

First, we are thrilled to be at the helm of Sortfolio. We have a lot of experience in the area and are excited about the plans we have for it.

Second, the guys at 37signals were a pleasure to work with. They were open, transparent, and are committed to the success of Sortfolio.

We'll be doing the full transition in the weeks to come. Once we are all done, we'll post a proper retrospective and fill everyone in on the details.

We can't wait to share more!

Re: Sortfolio lives

#56

Post by dools »

richardv wrote: post #20
dhh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another wild theory: The buyers contacted us directly, got the answers to the questions they sought, and closed the deal. Also, this is not out of the blue. We lost interest in considering all sorts of complicated deals a while back. So we told everyone that the price was $480K and that the deadline for closing a deal was July 1st: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3172-sortfolio-going-once-goi... So there was re…

Why are you always so bitter to people asking straight questions? If you didn't want people to draw their own conclusions then you should have acted responsibly and made some attempt to answer and respond to the questions posted on sale page. If you had no intention of providing this additional information because it was not worth your time, then you should have made it clear to people that no additional information…

Do I think you got the $480k asking price? shrugs

This is answered in the comments on the post.

Re: Sortfolio lives

#57

Post by kvnn »

jasonfried wrote: post #41
dangrossman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't really share anything someone would need to valuate the site publicly. You (well, Jason) posted an auction with no information about costs or profit, traffic sources or subscriber turnover, handover or whether the billing info of the customers would transfer, etc. These are the most basic pieces of information you'd expect to see in any listing of a site for sale there. Nobody responded to questions on the…

For some backstory... Flippa contacted us after we posted Sortfolio for sale on our blog ( http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3172-sortfolio-going-once-goi... ). They asked us to list on Flippa too. So I said, sure, we'll list it on Flippa too. I couldn't include specific information the way I wanted to include it, so I didn't include everything in that listing. I got a few private inquiries, they didn't go anywhere, and…

Did anyone who actually bid on the site take issue?

I'd think that anyone ready to spend $400k on a site would have the willingness to get in direct contact with the seller, and that this "Rise of the White Knights" episode on HN is not based in reality.

Re: Sortfolio lives

#58

Post by meanguy »

jasonfried wrote: post #33
larrys wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyone who was a qualified buyer" What criteria did you use to determine a "qualified" buyer? As someone who frequently deals in transactions over the web for large dollar amounts it is not always clear who is qualified and who isn't. Especially if you aren't doing a high volume of transactions so you don't have a pattern established. One recent transaction we handled for someone started off with an insulting offer…

When you get dozens and dozens and dozens of inquiries, it's pretty easy to tell which ones are serious. People who are prepared to spend $480,000 make it very clear they they're interested in moving forward and not just browsing.

I see you've never listed a million dollar house for sale. :)

Re: Sortfolio lives

#59

Post by larrys »

dhh wrote: post #35
larrys wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what I said to get a response like that. There is nothing wrong with what I proposed as a reason and it certainly doesn't rise to the level of "played the world for a fool." in any way. "We thought the site was worth at least 2x the previous year's take. And if we didn't get that, it wasn't worth our time to deal with the transaction." "it wasn't worth our time to deal with the transaction." Your attit…

You have no idea? You launched wild accusations that we were just playing everyone with our proposal and that we actually just had a buyer all along. If we had a buyer at $480K, we would not have bothered listing it again. We would just have sold it. I think the only reason why you consider my attitude an outlier is because I state it. Every business have a cut off point where a potential return is not worth the hass…

"wild accusations that we were just playing everyone"

You are 100% incorrect as to what I actually did and why. In business what I had suggested as a possibility is not something that would be frowned upon at all. It's the way business is done quite frequently. Do you think games aren't played in business and especially in negotiation? Consequently I wasn't being critical at all according to the way I viewed what you did. I looked at it in a positive way.

I've been negotiating for about 37 years and think about it every day and even as a hobby study the actions of a wide variety of individuals and companies. I don't claim to know what you know about programming or rise to your level of proficiency since it's what you do and I would never challenge you on that. But I do know about negotiating and business.

The "speculation" that I had was based on my experience. I even called it "speculation" and started my statement by saying "I'd love a post on how the price was set". That hardly sounds like it is coming from someone making "wild accusations".

As an aside I don't think that it supports your point to compare your situation to Apple and use the number 200k. Obviously.

Re: Sortfolio lives

#60

Post by dennisgorelik »

Does anyone have an explanation why it wasn't possible to sell Sortfolio when it was more popular, but suddenly at the deadline the deal materialized at the price that it was announced long time ago?

According to Compete.com, in the last 12 months Sortfolio traffic decreased more than 75% (4 times):

http://siteanalytics.compete.com/sortfolio.com/

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