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What do you visualize while programming?

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Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#51

Post by n4bz0r »

ljdtt wrote: post #22
sinuhe69 wrote: post #18

When working on a hard problem, I often had to visualize how the algorithm works, data moving there, changing this, replacing that. When I debug a tricky problem and I still have not figured it out yet, I have two options: either systematically note down what the code is going through, or keep the problem in the back of my head and sleep over it. More often than not, the solution will present itself after a while if…

That really resonates with me! I’ve found that when I’m up against a tricky problem, the solution often pops into my head when I’m not actively thinking about it—whether I’m sleeping, going for a walk, or just doing something completely different. It’s like the answer appears out of nowhere after I’ve stepped away. I’ve always wondered why this happens. Is it just how our brains work in problem-solving mode? Does any…

There must be a connection to how doctors advice to talk to (even unconscious) patients who survived a stroke: the brain of the patient is still actively receiving information and constantly rewires itself while trying to process the data over and over again. In case with a complex programming problem, the person itself is responsible for the 'feedback loop'. Like how you can't stop thinking about the problem under different angles. Thus no need for external stimulus. I'm guessing the best time for that kind of processing is when one is asleep because there is simply not much else for brain to do in that state. Plus, when asleep, some long-term memory mechanisms kick in which make the already processed data more accessible and easier to work with. If there are some studies explaining the why's, I bet the medical ones focusing on brain damage and long-term memory would be the most related.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#52

Post by JohnDeHope »

I never thought about it before, but I think I visualize stack frames. Local variables are registers or just memory in the stack frame. Objects are pointers. "Where I've been" is prior frames on the stack. "Where is this going" is branch prediction guesses the CPU is making. It's like having a sort of mishmash of Von Neuman architecture and algorithms and data structures rolling around.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#53

Post by efortis »

mmcdermott wrote: post #27

When doing architecture work, I'm generally thinking in terms of data flows and state changes. Programming seems more verbal to me than visual. It feels very akin to writing, I have an idea and I am talking through it. My editing of code tends to be nonlinear for this reason, drilling into areas as I would expound upon them verbally, rather than in the order the compiler will evaluate them.

Same here. I start with high-level signatures and data structures. Then I implement the functions.

Perhaps the git diff helps me visualize what's left to do.

On the other hand, if it is a complex algorithm, I draw diagrams representing the edges cases and I try to give them names before coding them.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#54

Post by cyberax »

Nothing. For complex algorithms, I prefer to think in invariants: "this condition should hold here, so this variable must be that".

I guess, for me the only exception is the dynamic programming algorithms. I re-discovered the wave algorithm (aka Dijkstra's algorithm) for solving mazes while writing in BASIC at school, and since then, I tend to reformulate any dynamic programming task as a path search in a maze.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#56

Post by OnionBlender »

malux85 wrote: post #29
ljdtt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really resonates with me! I’ve found that when I’m up against a tricky problem, the solution often pops into my head when I’m not actively thinking about it—whether I’m sleeping, going for a walk, or just doing something completely different. It’s like the answer appears out of nowhere after I’ve stepped away. I’ve always wondered why this happens. Is it just how our brains work in problem-solving mode? Does any…

Yeah this is me too - which is why I enjoy turn based games while I’m coding, if I get stuck I distract my consciousness with 2-3 turns in Civilisation and the answer pops into my head while I’m playing. Turn based is excellent because always I’m mid-turn when the answer comes so I alt-tab out and keep going. My steam shows some ridiculous number of hours in game because it’s always on, nearly 24/7, in a window on my…

I don't think I can only play 2-3 turns of Civilization at a time.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#57

Post by neilv »

This article starts talking about visualizations in head, but then the article becomes about common paper/screen visualizations from CS classes and programming tools.

There are visualizations in your head, and visualizations that you can look at and read and write. Unless you have a photographic memory, IME they're not used the same way.

For example, take their database schema diagram. The graph layout doesn't even make a lot of visual sense, and the visual language doesn't show the connections between columns and relations. But you can "read" through the column names (including the keys they put at top), and trace through the arrows, to see how to navigate to the information you need. And it summarizes important information in a small amount of space. All useful. But that's probably not how you see it in your head, and that's good.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#58

Post by Izkata »

JohnFen wrote: post #3

If I'm "in the zone", then I stop being aware of the monitor and keyboard and all I see is what's in my mind's eye: geometric shapes coming in and out of existence and moving in various ways that relate to what I'm doing. Then it feels like the code is just pouring forth on its own without me paying attention to it. It's seriously an altered state. Most of the time I'm not in that state[1], though. In those cases, I…

I don't even have to get in the zone for that, spatial relationships with various shapes (they're usually tagged blobs rather than geometric shapes; it's not something that could easily be made into an image to share with people) are just how I think about code in general. I switch from my normal "internal voice" style of thought to something different that usually doesn't use words, except occasionally for things like prepositions to help with relationships.

Really this is the same style of thought I usually have when I'm reading a book. Usually I don't have the entire thing mapped out like you'd see in a movie, just blobs that represent the characters and objects in the setting, but they're moving around and interacting as if it's a movie. If I get in the zone while reading this can temporarily override what I'm seeing so I don't even realize I'm still reading words and turning pages.

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#59

Post by wormlord »

ljdtt wrote: post #22
sinuhe69 wrote: post #18

When working on a hard problem, I often had to visualize how the algorithm works, data moving there, changing this, replacing that. When I debug a tricky problem and I still have not figured it out yet, I have two options: either systematically note down what the code is going through, or keep the problem in the back of my head and sleep over it. More often than not, the solution will present itself after a while if…

That really resonates with me! I’ve found that when I’m up against a tricky problem, the solution often pops into my head when I’m not actively thinking about it—whether I’m sleeping, going for a walk, or just doing something completely different. It’s like the answer appears out of nowhere after I’ve stepped away. I’ve always wondered why this happens. Is it just how our brains work in problem-solving mode? Does any…

Julian Jaynes[1] makes a pretty compelling argument that our unconscious mind does pretty much all of the heavy lifting with regards to problem-solving. The conscious mind just steers us and lets us remember what we are doing.

If I recall correctly an example he gives is looking at a math problem. Looking at 2+2 as an adult you instinctively know it to be 4. As a child you may have had to count on your fingers or write out the problem until the abstraction of numbers was solidified for you, and now it is just a black box that your unconscious has added to a "tool belt" of sorts.

For me I would describe the process of learning/problem solving as my conscious mind navigating some solution/problem space and figuring out the general shape of it. Once I have figured out the shape of the problem, the answer either:

1. Immediately looks like the shape of another, solved problem. In which case I just use that solution.

2. Is not immediately apparent.

In the case of #2 I just play around with different strategies that mostly don't work, but it helps me build a mental model of the problem. Then I wake up in the middle of the night with a solution, or figure it out while I am showering/eating/driving/etc.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in...

Re: What do you visualize while programming?

#60

Post by [deleted] »

meta-meta wrote: post #48
RaftPeople wrote: post #32

I see semi-amorphous/semi-geometrical/semi-colored stuff that represent different aspects and components of system. I think it's similar to people I've talked to about what they see when they think of the year+months+seasons, many friends described similar-ish types of representations that seemed visual (e.g. a circular view of months, or a long ribbon, etc.)

If months are circular for you, in which direction do they progress? A few years ago I realized my mental model of calendar months goes counter-clockwise. No idea why. I'm also aphantasic, so it's a sense of space and movement but I'm not actually seeing a circle. NYE is at 12 o'clock, but January is oddly at 11. edit: here's the article that prompted me to reflect on this https://nrkbeta.no/2018/01/01/this-is-what-t…

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