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Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

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Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#51

Post by joshlemer »

I've been thinking recently about how things like Project Euler, LeetCode, and to a bit less of an extent, Advent of Code, are so heavily focused on making clever use of math, data structures and algorithms, that it makes them suboptimal as a tools for getting familiar with a new programming language.

I know that that critique isn't new to anyone but it makes me think about how it would be cool if there were a code puzzler site that is specifically geared towards little self-contained tasks that are more to do with forcing you to get familiar with the common everyday tasks of software development.

Some example puzzlers could be like:

- open an http server on port 80

- open a file and write this data to it

- write temporary files to a location, deleting them when process exits

- query a database

- deal with such and such error scenario

- find a way to test this component

- bundle this code as an executable

- sanitize user input here

- make this behavior configurable

- take the config from environment variable variable and/or config file and/or arguments

- parse this data file

You do get a bit of parsing and file handling with Advent of Code but imagine a series of dozens of small problems that grill you on every corner of the python filesystem api. Would be a lot less dry than reading docs cover to cover.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#52

Post by aleph_minus_one »

joshlemer wrote: post #51

I've been thinking recently about how things like Project Euler, LeetCode, and to a bit less of an extent, Advent of Code, are so heavily focused on making clever use of math, data structures and algorithms, that it makes them suboptimal as a tools for getting familiar with a new programming language. I know that that critique isn't new to anyone but it makes me think about how it would be cool if there were a code p…

Have a look at Rosetta Code

> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code

This might be a little bit nearer to what you look for.

---

> it would be cool if there were a code puzzler site that is specifically geared towards little self-contained tasks

In my opinion the tasks on Project Euler or LeetCode are much more self-contained than what you suggest as alternatives: many of your suggestions are deeply intertwined with libraries (and understanding them) for doing the respective task instead of being self-contained programming tasks.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#53

Post by FredPret »

guessmyname wrote: post #23
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #21

During the solving of a problem on Project Euler, I learned that compilers are smarter than me. I don't remember the problem number or its title, but it involved starting from the top-left corner of a 2D grid and finding how many possible paths there are to get to the bottom-right corner while only moving either down or right. My naive solution was a brute-force depth-first recursive search. On my CPU at the time, it…

Lattice Paths — https://projecteuler.net/problem=15 > Starting in the top left corner of a 2x2 grid, and only being able to move to the right and down, there are exactly 6 routes to the bottom right corner. ─────────┐ ────┐ ────┐ ┌───┬───┐│ ┌───│───┐ ┌───│───┐ │ │ ││ │ │ │ │ │ │ ├───┼───┤│ ├───└────┐ ├───│───┤ │ │ ││ │ │ ││ │ │ │ └───┴───┘│ └───┴───┘│ └───│───┘ ▼ ▼ └────▶ │┌───┬───┐ │┌───┬───┐ │┌───┬───┐ ││ │ │ ││ │…

Did you just whip out that amazing ASCII art or do you use a tool?

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#54

Post by j2kun »

archgoon wrote: post #43
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #21

During the solving of a problem on Project Euler, I learned that compilers are smarter than me. I don't remember the problem number or its title, but it involved starting from the top-left corner of a 2D grid and finding how many possible paths there are to get to the bottom-right corner while only moving either down or right. My naive solution was a brute-force depth-first recursive search. On my CPU at the time, it…

So fun fact, if you compile int sum(int n) { int sum = 0; for(int i = 0; i clang, with -O2, will turn this into the polynomial (n+1)*n//2. It can also do similar transformations for multiple loops. https://godbolt.org/z/so6neac33 So if you do a brute force solution which could have been reduced to a polyomial, clang has a shot of doing just that.

I believe the term for this is scalar evolution.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#55

Post by hoten »

joshlemer wrote: post #51

I've been thinking recently about how things like Project Euler, LeetCode, and to a bit less of an extent, Advent of Code, are so heavily focused on making clever use of math, data structures and algorithms, that it makes them suboptimal as a tools for getting familiar with a new programming language. I know that that critique isn't new to anyone but it makes me think about how it would be cool if there were a code p…

to be fair, PE is not designed or meant for helping people learn a language. that isn't the project's intent.

people do like to say they use PE for learning new languages, but I doubt that is a useful exercise beyond maybe the first dozen problems or so. And even then, if the solution isn't obvious to you, you're doing two things at once - learning a language and solving a math puzzle. I don't see why people would sign up to get frustrated like that.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#56

Post by dan353hehe »

joshlemer wrote: post #51

I've been thinking recently about how things like Project Euler, LeetCode, and to a bit less of an extent, Advent of Code, are so heavily focused on making clever use of math, data structures and algorithms, that it makes them suboptimal as a tools for getting familiar with a new programming language. I know that that critique isn't new to anyone but it makes me think about how it would be cool if there were a code p…

One that I like to suggest, which covers more terminal and Linux skills then programming, is https://overthewire.org/wargames/

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#57

Post by archgoon »

j2kun wrote: post #54
archgoon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So fun fact, if you compile int sum(int n) { int sum = 0; for(int i = 0; i clang, with -O2, will turn this into the polynomial (n+1)*n//2. It can also do similar transformations for multiple loops. https://godbolt.org/z/so6neac33 So if you do a brute force solution which could have been reduced to a polyomial, clang has a shot of doing just that.

I believe the term for this is scalar evolution.

Yep! That is it alright.

Here's a talk from an llvm conference with the details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmjliNp0_00

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#58

Post by wging »

munchler wrote: post #39
SatvikBeri wrote: post #32

Project Euler is a lot of fun if you like a dash of math in your programming. The problems generally won't apply to your job or even to interviews, so don't go in expecting that. My favorite is https://projecteuler.net/problem=113 , "Non-Bouncy Numbers." It takes some clever tricks to figure out but doesn't require any significant background knowledge, and the optimizations required to get it to run within 60 seconds…

More than a dash. I would describe Project Euler as math problems that you need a computer to solve.

That’s mostly right, but some of them don’t require a computer. I’ve never solved one with just pencil and paper, but in some of the solution threads you will actually find pencil and paper solutions. I’m not sure if any of the later problems work like that, though.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#59

Post by guessmyname »

FredPret wrote: post #53
guessmyname wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lattice Paths — https://projecteuler.net/problem=15 > Starting in the top left corner of a 2x2 grid, and only being able to move to the right and down, there are exactly 6 routes to the bottom right corner. ─────────┐ ────┐ ────┐ ┌───┬───┐│ ┌───│───┐ ┌───│───┐ │ │ ││ │ │ │ │ │ │ ├───┼───┤│ ├───└────┐ ├───│───┤ │ │ ││ │ │ ││ │ │ │ └───┴───┘│ └───┴───┘│ └───│───┘ ▼ ▼ └────▶ │┌───┬───┐ │┌───┬───┐ │┌───┬───┐ ││ │ │ ││ │…

Did you just whip out that amazing ASCII art or do you use a tool?

ASCII art by hand (⌐■_■) it only took me 5 minutes or so … That said, I think someone could have done it faster with a tool like Monodraw (https://monodraw.helftone.com/) or something similar.

Re: Project Euler #912: Where are the Odds?

#60

Post by sesuximo »

joshlemer wrote: post #51

I've been thinking recently about how things like Project Euler, LeetCode, and to a bit less of an extent, Advent of Code, are so heavily focused on making clever use of math, data structures and algorithms, that it makes them suboptimal as a tools for getting familiar with a new programming language. I know that that critique isn't new to anyone but it makes me think about how it would be cool if there were a code p…

That’s just a job. Might as well get paid while you do that kinda stuff
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