I guess some people here live in github but I really don't recommend it for publishing text documents this way. Sure I can read it by scrolling back and forth or downloading it and opening it in something that will format it nicely and perhaps I missed the "make readable" button. But serious it is 2012, there are dozens of ways to publish things on the web that format them automatically for the browser to people can…
A copy to make it easier to read: Project Update #27: The Storm For backers only, Posted by cw&t Hi backers! First, for those of you still waiting for your pen(s), we're still on schedule. The schedule was posted a few updates ago (update #22). The 3 remaining batches are shipped from our manufacturer in China on July 7th (480 pens) July 23rd (480) August 7th (494) In the last couple months, we fought hard to speed u…
Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
51–60 of 60 posts
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#52What you describe is a quite normal business relationship with a Chinese company. There is always the "unreasonable counter offer" once they know there is almost no way back for you. There is always yelling (but not insulting!), that's a normal part of the negotiation process. It sounds to me like your "manufacturer" is already the distrubutor of whatever-pen-you-invented in Asia. Its not uncommon that they produce f…
That sounds a lot like getting something innovative made anywhere in the world. If you are producing your first batch of any innovative product, make sure you hire a very very chilled out and friendly expert who can speak the same language as the manufacturer, and who can virtually camp next to the factory for the first three batches. If you don't do this, then you are either making something easy with large margins and don't care about wastage, or you just don't care.
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
A copy to make it easier to read: Project Update #27: The Storm For backers only, Posted by cw&t Hi backers! First, for those of you still waiting for your pen(s), we're still on schedule. The schedule was posted a few updates ago (update #22). The 3 remaining batches are shipped from our manufacturer in China on July 7th (480 pens) July 23rd (480) August 7th (494) In the last couple months, we fought hard to speed u…
The problems might have been due to your (mis)communication with your Chinese partner, I wouldn't rush into accusing the entire Chinese manufacturing sector for your problems. In fact, an accusation like this proves you have problems of perception and prejudice on your side which might have contributed to it.
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
How's this for broken english: due diligence. Now you can take your naive, tarbrush, self-adoring brand of racism, sandblast it, polish it and and stick it up your ass. (Thanks for reposting, ars!)
I suspect you haven't heard the earlier installments of this story in which they were absolutely lied to about physical and volume capabilities. They found someone in china they could trust who led them to this manufacturer who appears capable of doing the job, but uninterested in matching their high quality requirements which they were quite aware of up front.
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#55This should be a cautionary tale about contracting out manufacturing (which in today's world, nearly means "trying to make anything physical"). Nothing is particular to China, although time differences and language barriers surely didn't help the matter. I say that having dealt with trying manufacturers myself. When it comes to contracting out work, the first time is always going to suck. This whole industry has figu…
> well worth hiring a consultant do that and save you some stress Isn't finding a reliable consultant who has gone through the hoops as difficult as sourcing manufacturing itself?
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#56I guess some people here live in github but I really don't recommend it for publishing text documents this way. Sure I can read it by scrolling back and forth or downloading it and opening it in something that will format it nicely and perhaps I missed the "make readable" button. But serious it is 2012, there are dozens of ways to publish things on the web that format them automatically for the browser to people can…
Same here. I don't mean to be snarky, but if this guy can't even post readable text on a website, it makes me question how valuable his advice can be.
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#57I had a (shockingly) similar experience with Chinese manufacturers five years ago. My experience cost me a company, my shirt, and a whole lot of lost sleep. Consequently, I too decided that I will never, ever do business with another factory in China. Not sure that is fair (as manufacturing problems happen everywhere), but it is what it is... Frankly, my story is useless - it is one entrepreneur's story of woe in a s…
> the Chinese economy will be starved of the western currency that has fueled its unbelievable growth Don't be so sure about that. China itself is currently the main growth driver for consumer goods, even for companies like Apple.
Thing is, the Chinese demand is met through RMB - the RMB has a whole ton of problems. My concern is that items like potash and oil (which the Chinese are hungry for) will become too expensive to keep the growth moving.
However, I haven't thought about your perspective, so I'm likely wrong. Thanks a lot for your feedback - it gives me something new to think about!!
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#58The other risk I've seen in Chinese manufacturing is duplication of your design. Some vendors will manufacture a larger run and then place the float on the black market. This is particularly true for smaller orders. I know of at least one niche electronics manufacturer - they have the parts made in China, but they load the firmware back in Australia. They've gone to great lengths to make the device useless without th…
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect you haven't heard the earlier installments of this story in which they were absolutely lied to about physical and volume capabilities. They found someone in china they could trust who led them to this manufacturer who appears capable of doing the job, but uninterested in matching their high quality requirements which they were quite aware of up front.
You're wrong. I've been hearing about this unfolding trainwreck for at least six months. All this talk about trust and lies is exactly what you always hear from people who are out of their depth. Fine. No problem with that. It's the 'China's shit, America's ace' rubbish that's unnecessary and unfair.
(1) He signed a contract with a manufacturer. During the signing of the contract, the company intentially sealed the contract with a red stamp that looked official, but was not that companies legal red stamp. They did this so that if anything happened they would have an out if there were a dispute. A dispute eventually arose and my friend found out the hard way to always have those stamps double-checked to make sure they are legit and represent the business with whom they were doing business. Had my friend been literate in Chinese, he probably would have caught this, but the Chinese manufacturer intentionally exploited his illiteracy in Chinese to produce a contract that could not be enforced.
(2) On more than one occasion he would be called by a manufacturer to be informed that the clothes had been produced and were ready to be shipped and that all he had to do was deposit the rest of the money and they would ship the clothes. After once discovering that the manufacturer had not even begun production, but was lying to him to cover a cash flow problem he made it a point of always flying out to the manufacture's plant the very next morning to personally inspect the entire shipment before depositing money in the account. After he started doing this, he repeatedly came across many manufacturers that were caught completely unprepared by his unannounced trip and when he arrived he discovered that no work had been done. This tactic to solve cash flow issues is apparently a semi-common occurrence.
Ask any foreign national that has ever worked (not just lived as a student) and you'll come across many many stories like the two above. I have my own stories from the times I taught public speaking to Phds in China.
TBH, I personally don't attribute it to race or nationality. It's just that many businesses in China have yet to move beyond a "caveat emptor" approach to business to a trust based system. A "pareto optimality" mindset prevails there. So many businesses transactions are negotiated on the Chinese side as "A dollar they get in this is a dollar lost for me" while the foreigners (depending on the country they are from, of course) are negotiating with the intention of long term continued business and that the long-term relationship will be far more profitable for both sides than trying to maximize short term returns. If there is any miscommunication, it's not because of language, but because the Chinese business is looking at it as a short term deal and the foreign side is looking at it as a long term relationship.
Just to be fair, most markets at one point in their development have been "caveat emptor markets". Europe and the US included. At some point a market eventually gets past that mindset once trust becomes a competitive advantage. In China, trust isn't yet seen as a competitive advantage because there are still many naive foreigners coming to China to manufacture things without knowing any better. Once the supply of naive business men going to China to manufacture stuff dries up, I reckon you'll see more competition based on trust.
Re: Pen Type-A: a cautionary tale of manufacturing in China
#60The other risk I've seen in Chinese manufacturing is duplication of your design. Some vendors will manufacture a larger run and then place the float on the black market. This is particularly true for smaller orders. I know of at least one niche electronics manufacturer - they have the parts made in China, but they load the firmware back in Australia. They've gone to great lengths to make the device useless without th…
How do they qualify the devices coming out of China without running firmware on the manufacturing line?