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NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

simonwillison.net

51–60 of 511 posts

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#51
They've really nailed the back and fourth of the two speakers!

It would be interesting to know if it's multimodal voice, or just clever prompting and recombining...

I added single voice podcasts to Magpai after seeing how useful this was. Allows for a bit more customisation of the podcast too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEsh9MlbA6s

I've got a daily podcast of hackernews being generated here too: https://www.magpai.app/share/n7R91q

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#52

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I think and hope that you're wrong. There's always been cheese, and there's a lot of it now. But there is still a market for top-notch insight. For example, Perun. This guy delivers an hourlong presentation on (mostly) the Ukraine-Russia war and its pure quality. Insights, humour, excellent delivery, from what seems to be a military-focused economist/analyst/consultant. We're a while away from some bot taking this ki…

Seriously, hardcore history? I dont even remember where I heard from him, but I think it was a Lex podcast. So I checked out hardcore history and was mightily disappointed. To my ears, he is rambling 3 hours about a topic, more or less unstructured and very long-winded, so that I basically remember nothing after having finished the podcast. I tried several times again, because I wanted it to be good. But no, not the format for me, and not a presentation I can actually absorb.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#54

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I thought this was a great, insightful comment, but noodling over it a little more made me think it's not just content producers who are responsible for this "quality vacuousness" epidemic. I think this is just partly an inevitable consequence of going from "content scarcity" to our new normal of "content obesity" over the past 20 years or so. In this new era of an overwhelming amount of content, it's just natural to…

You'll like this: https://www.alexmurrell.co.uk/articles/the-age-of-average

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#55

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I think and hope that you're wrong. There's always been cheese, and there's a lot of it now. But there is still a market for top-notch insight. For example, Perun. This guy delivers an hourlong presentation on (mostly) the Ukraine-Russia war and its pure quality. Insights, humour, excellent delivery, from what seems to be a military-focused economist/analyst/consultant. We're a while away from some bot taking this ki…

I know I'm not the first to say this, but I think what's going on is that these AI things can produce results that are very mid. A sort of extra medium. Experts beat modern LLMs but modern llms are better than a gap.

If you just need voice discussing some topic because that has utility and you can't afford a pair of podcasters (damn, check your couch cushions) then having a mid podcast is better than having no podcast. But if you need expert Insight because expert Insight is your product and you happen to deliver it through a podcast then you need an expert.

If I were a small software shop and I wanted something like a weekly update describing this week's updates for my customers and I have a dozen developers and none of us are particularly vocally charismatic putting a weekly update generated from commits, completed tickets, and developer notes might be useful. The audience would be very targeted and the podcast wouldn't be my main product, but there's no way I'd be able to afford expert level podcasters for such a position.

I would argue Perun is a world class defense Logistics expert or at least expert enough, passionate enough, and charismatic enough to present as such. Just like the guys who do Knowledge Fight, are world class experts on debunking Alex Jones, and Jack Rhysider is an expert and Fanboy of computer security so Darknet Diaries excels, and so on...

These aren't for making products, they can't compete with the experts in the attention economy. But they can fill gaps and if you need audio delivery of something about your product this might be really good.

Edit - but as you said the robots will catch up, I just don't know if they'll catch up with this batch of algorithms or if it'll be the next round.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#56

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I thought this was a great, insightful comment, but noodling over it a little more made me think it's not just content producers who are responsible for this "quality vacuousness" epidemic. I think this is just partly an inevitable consequence of going from "content scarcity" to our new normal of "content obesity" over the past 20 years or so. In this new era of an overwhelming amount of content, it's just natural to…

What you say (though I'm not sure that we can speak of an "ideal"), compounded with the "late stage capitalism" fact that everything today is consolidated, and has to be about making profit and maximizing it: Disney shareholders probably like the latest Marvel movie more than you do for being the same as the previous ones: business don't like taking risks. The same applies to your furniture maker: when you sell to millions and want your shelves stuffed, you pick a select few materials and color variations that minimize cost and targets the broadest audience.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#58
post #48
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I totally get people’s criticisms that the podcasts aren’t quite human-expert-level in terms of symbolic reasoning, but this still blows my mind. The intuitive skill these show, not to mention the ability to accurately (again, if shallowly) parse and transform huge bodies of content in seconds is absolutely scary, IMO. I’d feed it the Singularity paper, but I’m not sure I need that extra boost of anxiety these d…

This isn't "quite expert-level in terms of symbolic reasoning" in the same way as a soapbox isn't "quite a formula 1"

The symbolic reasoning is flawed but okay - the problem comes about because 99% of human reasoning is not symbolic.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#59
My first instinct was to not see why one would want to consume such a podcast, a simile instead of either the original or an (AI?) summary of the original. Then I remembered a partially disabled friend who regularly asks for audio books, because he physically cannot read long form. This, condensed, output would make a lot of ideas accessible to him.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#60
post #49
post #2

I just made a podcast episode about my company where I work by giving it the website. It was surprisingly realistic. It also made me realize how empty many podcasts actually are. I sent it to my colleagues telling them I "had it produced." I'll reveal the truth tomorrow.

Don't do this. A friend did this to me, and after listening to it, I suddenly realized it was AI vomit. My friend wasted an hour of my attention, and I didn't appreciate it.

If it was vomit, why did you spend an hour on it? People complain about 2 minutes of audio sometimes, I cannot imagine a full hour of an unknown podcast, it must have been quite interesting.
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