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Rio: Web apps in pure Python

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Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#52

Post by pjmlp »

zdragnar wrote: post #42
pjmlp wrote: post #12

This kind "you don't need JavaScript, HTML and CSS" approach always fails flat. We already went down this route several times since the first dotcom wave and all the frameworks that tried to target the browser as if we don't need to know "JavaScript, HTML and CSS". Until we need to debug the application, or why it isn't rendering as it should. It is also why I am not a big fan of Blazor, even though I admire its engi…

Remember GWT? I sure do.

Vaadin is still around.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#53

Post by simonw »

positus wrote: post #48
8organicbits wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a lot easier if they didn't rename things. 'Text' becomes 'span' and 'justify' becomes 'text-align'. Unless there's more I'm missing, it looks like they've just added a layer of indirection. rio.Text(self.name, justify="left"), Becomes: Dataset 1 I'd prefer: rio.Span(self.name, text_align="left")

Using the term "justify" is very common outside of web. It's been used for decades in print ("left justify / right justify / center justify"). This is indeed a web project though, so I hear what you're saying.

The term "justify" is used in modern CSS too: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/justify-con...

    justify-content: center;
    justify-content: start;
    justify-content: end;
    justify-content: flex-start;
    justify-content: flex-end;
    justify-content: left;
    justify-content: right;

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#54

Post by magnio »

8organicbits wrote: post #31
pjmlp wrote: post #12

This kind "you don't need JavaScript, HTML and CSS" approach always fails flat. We already went down this route several times since the first dotcom wave and all the frameworks that tried to target the browser as if we don't need to know "JavaScript, HTML and CSS". Until we need to debug the application, or why it isn't rendering as it should. It is also why I am not a big fan of Blazor, even though I admire its engi…

It would be a lot easier if they didn't rename things. 'Text' becomes 'span' and 'justify' becomes 'text-align'. Unless there's more I'm missing, it looks like they've just added a layer of indirection. rio.Text(self.name, justify="left"), Becomes: Dataset 1 I'd prefer: rio.Span(self.name, text_align="left")

Yeah, that's gonna be annoying when you want to read HTML & CSS documentation and translate it to Python. How do you differentiate text-align, justify-content, justify-items, and justify-self?

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#55

Post by zem »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #49
red_hare wrote: post #24

These frameworks are cute, and I understand the desire to avoid the modern SPA JavaScript build systems, but it always seems like so much more work than just writing HTML. I swear, HTML/CSS + Flask + HTMX gets you so far these days. Then, you can throw in some AlpineJS for any inter-element interaction you need and build a responsive SPA without almost any JavaScript.

Alpine is great for your blog, but it's not even a little bit tempting for real world professional projects. Looking back at every project I've worked on there's no shot I would ever select Alpine for any of them. These type of condescending comments really scream "I'm not even a web developer but here's my strong opinion as someone who only makes toy front ends to demo my data work"

would you use one of these python-to-web frameworks like rio though? I think gp was just saying alpine was a good alternative to that.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#57

Post by dumbo-octopus »

Sn3llius wrote: post #33
8organicbits wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a lot easier if they didn't rename things. 'Text' becomes 'span' and 'justify' becomes 'text-align'. Unless there's more I'm missing, it looks like they've just added a layer of indirection. rio.Text(self.name, justify="left"), Becomes: Dataset 1 I'd prefer: rio.Span(self.name, text_align="left")

We don't see ourselves as Python bindings for the web, but instead as a pythonic way to create apps. I understand that "span" has become a well known name amongst web developers, that's just not something most new developers understand. Think of it like how Python has renamed a lot of things. What other languages call arrays, Python calls lists. HashTables are dicts, and so on. Python has faced a lot of resistance he…

What connection do you think span has to text? To me, span is just the grouping element that defaults to display: inline. This can be used for text, but it can be used for about a million other things too. To me this looks like a fast path to a lot of docs that say “We aren’t actually putting any text in this element, but for legacy reasons it’s called Text. Version N+1 will rename it to Inline”.
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