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Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

plaintextaccounting.org

51–60 of 123 posts

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#51
I love PTA and have been doing it for years, using beancount, fava and emacs.

The main benefit for me is keeping track of everything, including pensions, RSU vests and so on.

I have some scripts that help me connect to banks and translate the transactions into the correct format with some crude rules based categorisation, along with scripts that convert CSV files from investment accounts etc.

It’s a lot of effort at first but I’ve got the system down now to maybe 10-15 minutes work once a week to keep everything updated.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#52
In the past I've tried various free accounting tools, but sadly none of them could track account/card numbers (EDIT: while processing bank statement exports). I don't need to track my many bread and pastry purchases, but I'd like to track things like investments, split lunches, rent from flatmates etc.

I have multiple accounts and I need to track transactions between them, and also distinguish them for all other transactions. Could anyone here recommend a tool that deals well with this?

I'm partial to semi-ad-hoc plain-text bookkeeping, which I already do for other things, but I'd be happy for any recommendations.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish their was a standard data format that all banks would use.

The format exists - OFX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange But even banks that use it make massive mistakes and break the basic assumptions. Unique ID repeating in the same day for example. Or using the minutes in place of the month...

Banks are much less technological than the common stereotype about them. In fact, integrating or automating a bank is one of the worst things you can do. The list of easy integration goes like this:

  High-tech internet services
  Stock exchanges
  Websites with no API
  …
  Telcos
  …
  …
  Banks
  Unreachable rock bottom of insanity

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#55
post #32

I’d appreciate hearing how others have used the various plain text accounting tools for their own use. Are you legitimately using it to inform yourself of your spending habits and taking corrective action? Is it simply for tracking your expenses, revenues, net worth, etc? Or is it simply about the process? I can certainly see the appeal of such an orderly, structured process. Every time I’m reminded of plain text acc…

I’m always using it for spontaneous group accounting, e.g. three guys vacation. Because for group expenses it’s much easier to split the check later in the day or the week. We just accumulate the web of debts and sort it out on demand. It’s very hard to track such chaotic expenses otherwise.

Same for business expenses, I just pay with my card for equipment, services, etc. Later I report it up and get cash/transfer back (doesn’t work for some countries/businesses).

My personal eaten-shitten expenses I know from my bank and experience, there’s no need to account for these.

Every time I’m reminded of plain text accounting, I have either an irresistible urge to immerse myself fully into the process, or feelings of guilt for not staying committed to my previous attempts

You must have financial motivation, not emotional. Once you know that if you give up on accounting, your buddy will happily drink through hundreds of bucks, or your company will get a free hdmi cable, you enter the damn sum without hesitation. Personal accounting doesn’t work because you only can lose analytics, not money.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish their was a standard data format that all banks would use.

The format exists - OFX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange But even banks that use it make massive mistakes and break the basic assumptions. Unique ID repeating in the same day for example. Or using the minutes in place of the month...

You should see what the major players (especially MS) do to iCalendar. The standard has been around since at least 2009, with the last update in 2016, but none of the major players implements the standard correctly, and most utterly fail on VTODO, I suspect on purpose because to-do lists are actually useful.

I can't decide whether the failure to implement iCalendar and OFX standards properly are examples of incompetence or malice, but I suspect the latter with an eye to vendor or bank lock-in.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#57
I've been using ledger (ledger-cli) from the moment I first became self employed (almost twenty years ago). While far from perfect, I'm very happy about it. It's nice that everything is in plain text, which means that I can script things, read everything in VIM, and easily extract data. For one of my two current companies, the ledger file is 2MB of plain text and contains the transactions from 2016 onwards.

While I personally didn't find much value in lots of different "accounts" (categories), it's still been indispensable in keeping track of everything.

Learning double-entry bookkeeping (which tools like ledger use) was really fun (and not that hard in hindsight) and probably a skill that is useful for the rest of my life.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#58

> This means that the bank will need to provide you with a SFTP server and credentials to connect to it idk but this does not sound reasonable at all

That's definitely the 'retro' way of doing it, and has been effectively outlawed in Europe with the new banking file and payment standards laws. It's rather hilarious, one of the major banks I had a conversation with back in 2019 (as these new laws were barely getting off the ground in tech implementation) noted that they had a service which allowed you to drop in raw SWIFT messages (interbank commmunication format)…

There are far more FTP connections where people download files than there are available APIs at a bank. Plopping CSV files on a SFTP server is dirt cheap compared to an API.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#59
post #10

I've been using Beancount, really enjoyed learning it, writing tools for data import and having a hands-on experience with accounting. But it's been almost a year since I last imported data, I planned to do it monthly but it's a bit of a chore (it takes 30 to 60 mins despite a lot of it being automated).

If you're willing to hold your nose a little bit, Plaid[0] might be worth looking into. They have (had?) a testing tier which is more than enough for personal uses (100 linked accounts). [0]: https://plaid.com/

According to this Reddit thread from 10 months ago, some major US banks like Chase won't work even in development mode without production approval, and some people mention obstacles getting approved for OAuth without being a company or otherwise having that level of security posture. (Other people seem to have gotten successfully approved for OAuth.)

I agree this niche needs a better solution than it currently has, although the commercial and regulatory incentives might not be well-aligned to force that. In my family we have important accounts in the US and in the EU (as well as less important accounts in Canada and Mexico), and I don't know of any personal use-friendly solution that lets me pull my data automatically from all of these.

I'd honestly like some nice integration between Plaid and Excel or GSheets to let me track capital gains transactions for my non-euro accounts in the weird way that German tax law requires (over a surprisingly broad range of accounts starting next year at the latest). But nothing turnkey seems to exist right now.

Re: Plain Text Accounting (PTA)

#60

Emacs org mode is useful for this. Its plain text tables have spreadsheet capabilities and you can cross reference other tables, to separate out things.

disappointed i had to scroll so far down to find the org mode reference. The text straight looks like an org mode doc too.

emacs org mode tables can even have formulas embedded in it and do rotations and automatic recalculation.

https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-features.html

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