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Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

cnbc.com

51–60 of 708 posts

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#51
It would just be really good if companies stopped avoiding tax. Most countries are already pretty much bankrupt - it's worth thinking about for every debt (US National Debt is $35.35 trillion!!) there is a rich person on the end of it with the loan as an asset earning interest.

If companies avoid tax and rich people avoid tax it means more tax for normal people who work for a living.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#52
post #4

Good. Not because I particularly dilike Apple or big US tech firms (I have a whole bunch of Apple stuff right here), but because Ireland has been able to undermine the tax regime of the whole EU, by giving these sweetheart tax deals to big firms, who can then run their entire EU business from there. This gives an unfair tax advantage to the multinationals over homegrown EU companies, skewing the market. Is it Apple's…

Surely an EU company, if big enough, could have moved to Ireland and negotiated a similar deal. I understand that the issue here is the nature of the deal with a specific company, but the EU does not want member states to have too much leeway to cut taxes in any case. They have set minima for corporation tax and VAT, for instance. Ultimately this is a question of competitive advantage and of ways for small, peripheri…

The major problem is that Ireland, Netherlands, and Luxembourg also have veto powers when it comes to EU wide regulations. Luckily they understood this was alienating the other EU members and so they conceded to a minimum of 15% taxation rate [1]

[1] https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/taxation/business-taxa...

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#53

prior to brexit, the UK lost a ton of US inward direct investment to Eire … Dell, Intel, Apple etc. the factors were Eire corporation tax was low and public policy was to footdrag in the attempts to set an EU minimum tax, fantastic lobbying by Irish representatives in Washington leveraging the big Irish diaspora, big subsidies that walked to the edge of the EU rules (as seen here), and an English speaking workforce w…

"Eire" is a weird exonym. The country this happened in is called Ireland (officially and colloquially). It's a republic and shares the island (also called Ireland) with a non-sovereign country called Northern Ireland. It's often referred to as the Republic of Ireland, which is a fine description, but not the official name.

In the Irish language, the name of the country is "Éire", but saying that in English is like saying Magyarország instead of Hungary. The accent on the first letter isn't optional, and the pronunciation is difficult, it's hardly worth it.

Please just say "Ireland".

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#54
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely an EU company, if big enough, could have moved to Ireland and negotiated a similar deal. I understand that the issue here is the nature of the deal with a specific company, but the EU does not want member states to have too much leeway to cut taxes in any case. They have set minima for corporation tax and VAT, for instance. Ultimately this is a question of competitive advantage and of ways for small, peripheri…

> an EU company, if big enough, could have moved to Ireland and negotiated a similar deal. Probably not, because their home country would go after them / make Ireland liable. These kinds of schemes usually work across jurisdictions

Hmm, "move to Ireland" means "home country" becomes Ireland. Obviously. Companies can do that, and in fact they do that. Fiat merged with Peugeot and suddenly the company is headquartered in the Netherlands, not France or Italy, for similar reasons.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#55

What does "illegal" mean? Why is it in quotes? Did they break the law or not? If they didn't break the law, if they adhered to the deal they negotiated with Ireland, isn't this a dangerous precedent? You can just ignore deals because you (EU) said so? Edit: Please downvote me if you must but also post a comment about why I'm wrong. Thanks!

CNBC likes to use quotes for emphasis. It's supposed to emphasize that the EU court believes the tax treatment from Ireland to be illegal.

The EU isn't applying any penalty here, this is owed taxes that apple were not billed by the Irish tax authorities.

Once you enter the EU, you forfeit part of your sovereignty. That's what Ireland failed to do here. There is no slippery slope. This is the very foundation of the union.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely an EU company, if big enough, could have moved to Ireland and negotiated a similar deal. I understand that the issue here is the nature of the deal with a specific company, but the EU does not want member states to have too much leeway to cut taxes in any case. They have set minima for corporation tax and VAT, for instance. Ultimately this is a question of competitive advantage and of ways for small, peripheri…

The major problem is that Ireland, Netherlands, and Luxembourg also have veto powers when it comes to EU wide regulations. Luckily they understood this was alienating the other EU members and so they conceded to a minimum of 15% taxation rate [1] [1] https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/taxation/business-taxa...

Yes, they are small and weak and had to concede to the big and powerful... And "alienating" is exactly my point: Those big and powerful don't want others to set lower tax rates than they have.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#59
post #39

> "We always pay all the taxes we owe wherever we operate and there has never been a special deal," he said. Ιf that is true it should be easy to prove. Letting them pay peanuts is an insult to the whole of EU by the Irish government

Insult-driven thinking is really, really low grade.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#60
post #31

Seems wrong that Ireland cheated the system to attract tech companies then also gets a huge payout.

The idea was that these big companies will move back to the big centers (Paris/Frankfurt) once they have to pay the same taxes. That didn't happen (surprise) and Ireland is now ending up with a tax deluge and high value tech companies.

The idea was that these big companies and the Irish government obey the law.
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