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Nginx has moved to GitHub

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Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#51

Post by arp242 »

amiga386 wrote: post #24
aseipp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some alternatives like https://grep.app or https://sourcegraph.com/search if you want fast live search, but at the end of the day these are services offered by companies, and rather expensive ones especially for free anonymous users, so you should probably at least accept that service providers can and do change things like this. You can also run something like your own copy of Zoekt and then ingest reposit…

Github managed to provided search to free anonymous users since its inception in 2007, to mid-2023 when they introduced this new code search. I would submit that this change is entirely business-related: it's a power-play to make people create accounts and stay logged in so they can track you better. It is not that they cannot afford it, it is that they are enshittifying the service to further their interests. If the…

> I would submit that this change is entirely business-related

Developers working on it have said it's due to performance reasons. I don't have a link handy, but it's in some HN thread.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#52

Post by amiga386 »

HellzStormer wrote: post #43
amiga386 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github managed to provided search to free anonymous users since its inception in 2007, to mid-2023 when they introduced this new code search. I would submit that this change is entirely business-related: it's a power-play to make people create accounts and stay logged in so they can track you better. It is not that they cannot afford it, it is that they are enshittifying the service to further their interests. If the…

Personally, I don't think this is a valid case of enshittifying. Products that you pay for that loses features or break or become more painful to use are enshittifying. A free feature that stays free but requires you to make a free account (no credit card needed), I can see at least one very valid reason: if the feature heavier than a simple page (which is the case here), then it's an open door for DDOS attacks. Bein…

> The alternative is having to do captchas and the like to use those features anonymously

This is not the case. You may have noticed that Google Search, Bing, etc. don't require login or captcha to do a search. Billions of people use this search daily. And yet, they will throw a captcha at you, or even just say "you're a bot, stop bothering us" whether you're logged in or not, if their signals have detected what they consider abuse.

Clearly, their signals are not as naive as "anonymous user, require captcha / logged-in user, no checks required". Preventing DDOS != requiring login.

They like you logged in because they can add more data to their verified user identity and activity datasets and sell them for more money. They already make enough money to run the service despite all the anonymous usage, but they'd like more money, you see.

Github managed to offer anonymous search for 16 years before one day Microsoft took it away. Do you think it was due to DDOS attacks, or do you think it was a power-play to attract more sign-ups and logins?

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#53

Post by amiga386 »

arp242 wrote: post #51
amiga386 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github managed to provided search to free anonymous users since its inception in 2007, to mid-2023 when they introduced this new code search. I would submit that this change is entirely business-related: it's a power-play to make people create accounts and stay logged in so they can track you better. It is not that they cannot afford it, it is that they are enshittifying the service to further their interests. If the…

> I would submit that this change is entirely business-related Developers working on it have said it's due to performance reasons. I don't have a link handy, but it's in some HN thread.

They claimed the new search requires logins due to performance reasons... they have no reason, other than they want to use both the carrot and the stick in driving signups and logins, to take away their existing search, the one they didn't have a problem offering for 16 years, completely.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#54

Post by ComputerGuru »

chrsig wrote: post #42
jsheard wrote: post #3

What's the state of nginx nowadays? Last I heard the original core team had fractured and formed two different forks while F5 continued to develop OG nginx, so there's three nginxes being developed in parallel now. Have the forks gained any traction?

You know, for most projects, I'd think that'd be pretty...bad. Given that nginx only recently got dynamic module support, I'm curious how many people are out there having grown to build it from source, letting them switch upstreams a bit more easily. perhaps. maybe.

Pretty much every major nginx deployment I’m familiar with has been from source. Dynamic modules aren’t really that new but certainly post-date a lot of deployments. But also bigger deployments tend to want full control of which in-tree modules are compiled into nginx, which dependencies they pull in (for security and deployment reasons), and how quickly patches and security releases can be updated.

It also has a fairly simple from-source deployment with a fairly solid build script.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#56

Post by hinkley »

layer8 wrote: post #16
hinkley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember Linus created git to help deal with an ever escalating inbox full of patches.

You have your history wrong here.

No I don’t. You’re confusing motivation with requirements. I’m talking about requirements.

But of advice. Outside of TV programming, when an American is talking about why a tool was created, they almost always mean its purpose, not its origin story. That inspiration story on TV is aimed at inventors. The people who use the tools don’t care, and it’s an anecdote for the rest of us.

I suspect that has something to do with that illusion we maintained of American Ingenuity. I don’t need the back story, what’s it for?

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#57

Post by hinkley »

juped wrote: post #27
hinkley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember Linus created git to help deal with an ever escalating inbox full of patches.

I'm sorry people are being dismissively snide and downvotive about this reasonable characterization of things (see: https://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=111288700902396 ) because they think knowing the factoid that linux used bitkeeper is some kind of "epic own".

[flagged]

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#58

Post by chrsig »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #54
chrsig wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, for most projects, I'd think that'd be pretty...bad. Given that nginx only recently got dynamic module support, I'm curious how many people are out there having grown to build it from source, letting them switch upstreams a bit more easily. perhaps. maybe.

Pretty much every major nginx deployment I’m familiar with has been from source. Dynamic modules aren’t really that new but certainly post-date a lot of deployments. But also bigger deployments tend to want full control of which in-tree modules are compiled into nginx, which dependencies they pull in (for security and deployment reasons), and how quickly patches and security releases can be updated. It also has a fai…

"new" is subjective -- I'll catch up with the times eventually, I'm sure :)

but yeah, I've had to write said script due to needing to compile in proprietary modules.

It's just a bit of CI glue, pretty straightforward and quick build -- thanking to it being written in C rather than C++.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#59

Post by arp242 »

amiga386 wrote: post #53
arp242 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would submit that this change is entirely business-related Developers working on it have said it's due to performance reasons. I don't have a link handy, but it's in some HN thread.

They claimed the new search requires logins due to performance reasons... they have no reason, other than they want to use both the carrot and the stick in driving signups and logins, to take away their existing search, the one they didn't have a problem offering for 16 years, completely.

So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it.

You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg they're bad".

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#60

Post by samcat116 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #49
aseipp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, ordinary login is one of the things they've genuinely improved over time I feel? I absolutely never deal with logins more than once a day per machine? With stuff like Passkey support now, I basically click two buttons in 1Pass and I'm logged in instantly on ~everywhere. I also feel like I never have my tokens expire. I'm probably not doing the same stuff as you. It's sudo/elevated mode that really gets you I t…

GH Enterprise and public GH don't share tokens, so 1 login/day automatically becomes 2. Then, logins aren't shared across devices and 2 additional devices (phone and personal computer) makes 4 logins/day. Not sure why GitHub expires tokens so quickly, but I can replicate it across every device I own and multiple accounts. Maybe they just don't like me?

I have never experienced this. I almost never have to log in after the initial login.
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