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Kagi Assistant

blog.kagi.com

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51–60 of 247 posts

Re: Kagi Assistant

#51

Post by rvnx »

recursive wrote: post #47
traceroute66 wrote: post #44

I recently tried Kagi and I struggled to see the value. For many queries side-by-side with Startpage it delivered the same results word-for-word (sure you get a few sponsored links top-3 of Startpage but its no big deal to scroll past those). For other things, it was just plain annoying, e.g. "newest $type restaurants in $large_city" half the results on the first page were from 10 years ago (e.g. dated 2014). I mean…

> but its no big deal to scroll past those For some of us it is. If your search engine's revenue model is based on advertising to its users, their relationship is fundamentally adversarial. This affects all of their decisions, in ways that are sometimes hard to identify. Witness the slow decline of google search result ads. If users are the direct source of revenue, then everyone's interests are aligned. Also, I, and…

40 to 60% of users get the free search results, and the comfort of not having ads with a simple "Hide element" extension.

It's hard to beat.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#52

Post by PhilippGille »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #10

Hmmm One feature here that I think competitors lack is that the LLM's view of search results can be constrained by Kagi's search "lens" [0] that let you exclude various categories of results. I use Kagi but haven't dug into lenses, anyone have experience ? I'm currently trying to write python script interfacing with outlook's mailterm interface (win32com.client) and it's annoying. I wonder if I can restrict search re…

If you want to restrict results to a single page you can all to use `site:example.com` in your search.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#53

Post by Apocryphon »

dubme1 wrote: post #45

Paid Kagi user here. I REALLY wish Kagi would focus on it's core selling point: search. Building a search engine is hard enough. I use Kagi Search everyday and I am mostly happy with it but the product has a lot of room for improvment. Stop launching new products (browser, summarizer, gpt, assistant) while your core product is still behind the competition in many areas.

I agree that they should focus on their core product, but ironically while I use Kagi from time to time, I'm still mostly on DDG- via Orion, a browser I'm willing to pay for.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#54

Post by bangaladore »

stavros wrote: post #24
bangaladore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use something like OpenRouter, which lets you access essentially all commercially available models. Including open-source models. There are no rate limits. You pay a different rate per model (OpenRouter shows the pricing transparently). You load your account with credits. I use it daily (undoubtedly far more than the average user) and loaded 50$ with credits five months ago, but I still have over 1/2 of it le…

Keep in mind that, while OpenRouter gives you the upstream price for OpenAI/Anthropic models (so you pay the same per token), there's a loading charge, so if you want to load $10 in credits you pay $12 or so. This means that it's more expensive than calling OpenAI directly, even though they have the same price per token.

Where the loading charge is amortized over all the calls made.

If you want to use precisely one API, paying directly for that API is cheaper. However, that's only true with closed-source providers. Anyone can host a server running llama 3.1 that OpenRouter could (in theory) use, bringing price competition to model cost. Closed-source models have a monopoly and can set their price wherever they want.

I'm okay with spending an extra 2$ every six months to access the APIs of any model I want.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#55

Post by bangaladore »

sergiotapia wrote: post #42
bangaladore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use something like OpenRouter, which lets you access essentially all commercially available models. Including open-source models. There are no rate limits. You pay a different rate per model (OpenRouter shows the pricing transparently). You load your account with credits. I use it daily (undoubtedly far more than the average user) and loaded 50$ with credits five months ago, but I still have over 1/2 of it le…

There's also BigAgi (really a weird ass name - probably hurting them) that is good for the same use case. Just paste in your API key and you get a really nice UI to chat through at-cost. https://get.big-agi.com/

A nice thing about this as I'm reading it is you can hook up OpenRouter to it. OpenRouter's interface leaves a lot to be desired.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#56

Post by msmithstubbs »

eli wrote: post #36
msmithstubbs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi uses Google as one of its sources for search results so should be able to return the same reddit results as Google.

Doesn't seem like it. Can you get it to return a reddit result from the last 6 weeks?

Try this:

https://kagi.com/search?q=remarkable+pro+site%3Areddit.com

It includes Reddit results from less than 24 hours ago.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#57

Post by Spivak »

dubme1 wrote: post #45

Paid Kagi user here. I REALLY wish Kagi would focus on it's core selling point: search. Building a search engine is hard enough. I use Kagi Search everyday and I am mostly happy with it but the product has a lot of room for improvment. Stop launching new products (browser, summarizer, gpt, assistant) while your core product is still behind the competition in many areas.

If you hear Vlad talk it's very clear that he considers these things to be part of that core product. The summarizer powers the ability to summarize articles / search results (even video), the assistant and fastgpt power their answer to Google's snippets and quick answers, small-web is the minimum-useful thing to start their own index and not have to pay rent to Bing/Google, and they view Orion to be a long-term bet on the belief that this is the only way they'll get Kagi as a default search engine.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#58

Post by jjmarr »

tinyhouse wrote: post #19

It's not clear from the post how to access this new assistant. The search page has no such option (not a paying user). When I run a search, I only see an LLM based summary of the results similar to Google's. Update: I see now that they say it's not available for free users. Need to pay $25/month. Not sure why, they can offer it for free users with the cheaper models like they do now to generate a "quick answer". I'm…

Kagi search isn't free either.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#59

Post by lilyball »

hollowturtle wrote: post #46

What’s the incentive for websites to let Kagi and others indexing content if llms in search show relevant informations right away? Wouldn’t something like perplexity ai making more sense then? Or perhaps better application of llms to search

I haven't used Kagi's Quick Answer very often yet, but when I do, it always cites its sources and I often end up clicking into at least one of the sources to look for more detail or context.

Re: Kagi Assistant

#60

Post by stavros »

bangaladore wrote: post #54
stavros wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that, while OpenRouter gives you the upstream price for OpenAI/Anthropic models (so you pay the same per token), there's a loading charge, so if you want to load $10 in credits you pay $12 or so. This means that it's more expensive than calling OpenAI directly, even though they have the same price per token.

Where the loading charge is amortized over all the calls made. If you want to use precisely one API, paying directly for that API is cheaper. However, that's only true with closed-source providers. Anyone can host a server running llama 3.1 that OpenRouter could (in theory) use, bringing price competition to model cost. Closed-source models have a monopoly and can set their price wherever they want. I'm okay with spe…

Sure, but I only use the hosted APIs, so for me it doesn't make much sense to pay the extra premium. Maybe it doesn't for others either.
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