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How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

wsj.com

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Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#51

Post by cherryteastain »

the_real_cher wrote: post #25
cherryteastain wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recent immigrants tend to earn less than U.S.-born workers...because they are working without permission This is the real problem. The Indian PhD grad on a H1B won't create the kinds of problems in the article. Media loves to put H1B/L1/EB1/EB2 holders with random people walking in via Mexico and doing odd jobs for cash in hand in the same category when their economic impact could not be more different.

Their economic impact is to deprive opportunities from Americans just like the people walking in from Mexico. There is a strong equivalency there. More people graduated in computer science in the United States in the last few years than ever before and they can't find jobs. Doesn't it beg the question...if they're so good for the economy in America why aren't they good for the economy in their own country?

> deprive opportunities

Jury is out on this one. Japan has hardly any immigration yet their wages stagnated. Canada has a ton of immigration and their wages are also stagnant. Europe is somewhere between Japan and Canada, with also stagnant wages. Nobody disputes wages are stagnant, but the degree to which skilled immigration suppresses wages is an area where economists are unsure or even tilting towards a 'no' answer.

> if they're so good for the economy in America why aren't they good for the economy in their own country

There are so many jobs that are available only in industrialized countries. You won't find semiconductor fabs or airplane factories in undeveloped countries.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#52

Post by n4r9 »

Jupital wrote: post #30
iknowstuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

[flagged]

> There is absolutely no point to a country unless it is a nation of people of shared blood, culture, and history.

Arguably, USA has never been this. And yet there is definitely a "point" to it.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#53

Post by pif »

spwa4 wrote: post #46
biorach wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The quality of life has dropped dramatically in the original EU countries. This is, on the whole, bullshit.

I think you'll find people in the EU compare their situation to the economic situation of their parents. That comparison goes very badly. In the 70s-80s-90s an uneducated worker could support a "suburban" house (newly built, that they'd own after 20 years or so and retire in), stay-at-home wife, car, send 2-3 kids to school and college and have money left over for a yearly holiday with 5 people. Compare that to even…

> In the 70s-80s-90s an uneducated worker could support

Then the entire West started buying cheap from China and imposing rigid environmental constraints locally, and manufacturing jobs left forever.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#54

Post by atlas_hugged »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #29
hiddencost wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research is pretty overwhelming. Immigrants contribute much more than they take, and the increase in prosperity benefits everyone. You should actually sit down and study the topic, because your belief system is terrifying in its ignorance.

[flagged]

French people using the slang used by American racists? That’s a new one.

“State mandated dose of neutral..” what?

You clearly didn’t go the same brain washing public school systems I went to in America (California of all places) where they told us a gigantic pile of lies about basically everything that happened in our history that I’m still trying to unlearn 20+ years later.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#55

Post by raverbashing »

the_real_cher wrote: post #47
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a legacy American like Mark Cuban From Wikipedia > His paternal grandfather changed the surname from "Chabenisky" to "Cuban" after his family emigrated from Russia through Ellis Island.[14][15] His maternal grandparents were Romanian Jewish immigrants

Immigrant from Europe right? That's where everyone in America came from. Same culture, same history, same values. Western civilization seems to create high trust societies that other cultures struggle to replicate. People say America was founded on immigration which is true but they neglect to say that it was immigration FROM EUROPE. Immigrants from non-western countries weren't allowed into America en masse until th…

I kinda agree with you

But given how Irish and Italians were treated back then, I imagine Eastern Europe immigrants had it even worse

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#56

Post by einszwei »

Jupital wrote: post #30
iknowstuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

[flagged]

The lack of historical context on immigration in U.S. is par for course. There has always been massive immigration to U.S. since 18th Century. Talking about "nation of people of shared blood" is a Fantasy

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#57

Post by the_real_cher »

asimpletune wrote: post #35
the_real_cher wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesn't it beg the question though... if they're so good for America why aren't they good for their own country?

It makes sense for big fish to seek big ponds

India and China arent big ponds?

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#58

Post by the_real_cher »

echelon wrote: post #33
the_real_cher wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesn't it beg the question though... if they're so good for America why aren't they good for their own country?

The value and commensurate compensation of talent depends on location. Proximity to colleagues, decision makers, and capital.

Somebody has to sacrifice to be the first to start something like that in their own country.

In America we built companies art and music out of our garages just for the love of it... not because "that's where the compensation was."

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#59

Post by sgt101 »

iknowstuff wrote: post #18
Jupital wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

The people who used to live in the USA disagreed with you.

“A long time ago, this land belonged to our fathers, but when I go up to the river, I see camps of soldiers on its banks. These soldiers cut down my timber, they kill my buffalo, and when I see that, my heart feels like bursting.” – Satanta, Kiowa Chief

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_th...

But almost all of them have been killed and those that remain seem to lack a distinct political voice that's in any way relevant to the national discourse of the USA. All of those nation states that pre-existed "America" were, as you say, fucked.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#60

Post by the_real_cher »

varjag wrote: post #26
yunohn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the son of Taiwanese parents who sent their children to live with an uncle in the US. That's one of the many immigration paths that the MAGAs want to close. Is this an actual immigration path that still remains open? I find it hard to believe.

No not really. Maybe in Ellis Island days. Most born Americans certainly have no fainest clue how hard it is to legally immigrate to the USA already.

there's a lot of businesses simply built around hacking the US immigration system.

the people most likely to immigrate aren't the smartest but the people with the most money who can pay to hack the system

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