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OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

orbstack.dev

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Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asked the other way around, why would anyone think a Docker container runner would be tied to MacOS?

Because Windows users are unlikely to care about Docker and Linux people don’t pay for stuff

The vast majority of devs use windows for dev, esp with Docker. Why wouldn’t they care about it?

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#53
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Windows users are unlikely to care about Docker and Linux people don’t pay for stuff

This is hilarious and perfectly sums up my experience with Mac developers. Half of them have no idea Docker Desktop actually installs a Linux VM. They think how amazing their incredibly expensive system is, yet it's mostly a glorified text editor. The WSL experience on Windows convinced me buying a MacOS machine makes no sense.

Glad the humor landed

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#54
post #49

OrbStack is by far some of the best software I've encountered on Mac, but unfortunately I have difficulty convincing my employer to pay for a commercial license, and with my sparse Docker usage, I'm confined to using it only for personal/hobby usage. What's amazing is it fixes an (almost) show stopper bug when using libuv (or software that uses it like CMake) with Rosetta 2 [1], with the bug present on all Docker/VMs…

Sorry to be blunt but your employer must be real penny pinchers, it’s not that expensive, and it’s a tool that would help you get the job done.

Fair criticism and I agree -- to that point, we're asked to bring our own devices to work without any compensation or the like (though it does have its advantages). I've considered paying out of my own pocket, but I just don't use Docker outside of work, and that's kind of where I draw the line at paying for software to do work.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#55
post #4

Nice to see this here :) I work on OrbStack. Happy to answer questions!

I have been using colima as a lightweight alternative to docker desktop and the likes of it for almost two years. Looking at the comparison provided on the orbstack website (https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/colima) it seems to be not very accurate or at least requires some explanations/clarifications.

For instance: Low power/CPU usage is advertised as non-existent in colima. This is simply not true. Based on my perception I can't tell whether colima VM is running or not. Unlike docker desktop, especially with kubernetes on. Does not drain my battery, does not bog my CPU down unless I intentionally spin up something resource hungry.

ease of use/performance: not everyone needs GUI. colima is fine UX/devex wise with fast startup times. What does "fast network" even mean?

Linux machines/distros: not a fair comparison. colima stands for "containers on Lima" where lima is "linux machines" on macos. I.e. if you want arbitrary vms, use lima directly. colima is specifically built to spin up docker/containerd/k3s vms.

containers/kubernetes networking: this is opinionated and depends on a specific use case. In general I prefer the idea when my local kubernetes setup looks like the end production setup in the sense that I cannot mess up much with networking, access clusterip services directly from localhost because clusterip services are supposed to be accessible from inside the cluster itself, not from outside. loadbalancer IP is accessible through NodePorts anyways.

containers file access: there are plenty of ways you can access files in containers and images. But again, probably there are people who like to browse the guts of a kubernetes node in MacOS Finder. When it comes to files and networking I want to be able to re-use my toolbox used for dealing with remote kubernetes clusters and docker/containerd instances to my local ones. Creating a special case with convenient but non-standard ways to access files as if they were part of my host filesystem may be good for someone, but wrong for someone else because at times when something goes wrong this special case will work as an excuse for "works on my machine".

Please take the above as my personal experience. And I am in the herd of those who tend to keep everything as minimal and bare as possible with as much standartization/ lack of deviations across different environments as possible. Came to colima after years of minikube just because minikube's experience was no longer good with apple silicon. And there must be a very strong reason to switch to something new when what you have already is good enough.

Also, when it comes to GUI, what about Rancher Desktop?

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#56
post #21

I’m curious how orbstack is able to achieve the performance they claim.

They have an architecture overview here: https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture

This is pretty light on the details.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#57
OrbStack is great in a lot of ways, and I universally prefer it over Docker for Mac.

That being said, it wasn't always been smooth sailing. Under the hood, OrbStack uses an 8TB sparse disk image, which doesn't play nice with most backup software.

https://github.com/orbstack/orbstack/issues/29

It caused me problems with Backblaze, but the Github issues for this show that it also breaks all sorts of backup software, including tarsnap, Druva inSync, Carbon Cloner, iDrive, Carbonite, and even Time Machine itself when formatted with HFS+, apparently.

The official position for a year was "won't fix", because it's an Apple technology, and backup software should support that. While technically correct, realistically, sparse image backup support was not very widespread at the time. (I have no idea about now, since I gave up trying to back up my Orbstack image with my whole disk backup.)

I like Orbstack, but I wish the devs had moved to exclude the disk image from backups immediately, instead of arguing with people about it for a year first.

All that being said, I do still like OrbStack a lot, and I hope to never see a repeat of this problem and how it was handled.

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#58
post #49

OrbStack is by far some of the best software I've encountered on Mac, but unfortunately I have difficulty convincing my employer to pay for a commercial license, and with my sparse Docker usage, I'm confined to using it only for personal/hobby usage. What's amazing is it fixes an (almost) show stopper bug when using libuv (or software that uses it like CMake) with Rosetta 2 [1], with the bug present on all Docker/VMs…

Sorry to be blunt but your employer must be real penny pinchers, it’s not that expensive, and it’s a tool that would help you get the job done.

Spent all the budget on Apple hardware

Re: OrbStack: The fast, light, and easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

#60
post #59

I'm not sure I fully understand the technical differences between an OrbStack VM and a container, as both seem to use a shared kernel. What would be the closest alternative on Linux? LXD? I've grown accustomed to the convenience of OrbStack.

A Buildroot VM which runs just enough Linux to provide Docker and virtio file sharing?

You can achieve almost the same thing with Alpine Linux, that's how I run all my containers, one VM per container.

Edit: Further down the comments it says OrbStack is a single Linux VM running LXD containers. Oh well, I was close.

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