Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

daringfireball.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 71 posts

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#51

Post by steverb »

AllenKids wrote: post #48
martinkallstrom wrote: post #24

As a regular Apple user (iphone/ipad/macbook air are my main tools), in my eyes Gruber is jumping the shark here. He comments on the structure of the event, his own feelings watching it. He comments on what information that has not yet been released. He clearly wants to move focus away from the hardware itself. Perhaps because it is just a little too awesome to come from MS?

Really there is very little worth mentioning beside the keyboard covers. And Microsoft does not allow anyone to touch the keyboard covers. Whose fault is that? It is not record setting thin, or impossibly light, it has worse screen than the retina iPad, battery life is not mentioned at all, neither is th price,the look is quite minimalist and good, but not new or stunningly interesting ... pray tell, what's so awesom…

The fact that with the Pro Version I can run whatever software on it I want. We are salivating over these at an enterprise level as it solves several major problems for us (if they work as advertised).

It means that rather than buying sales types an Air/Ultrabook along with supporting their iPad/Android we can buy them the surface pro and hand them a Windows Phone and have easy integration.

Microsoft understands the enterprise market.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#52

Post by keithpeter »

ekianjo wrote: post #38
keithpeter wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I still dont see people working on iPads in real offices where you do REAL work." I do see people working with iPads quite often. Some examples; building and plant surveyor specifying changes in our building; teaching inspectors making notes during a lesson observation; local middle managers pulling down reports from Intranet during meeting; managerial types on train every morning reading documents and annotating th…

> I do see people working with iPads quite often. Maybe I should clarify what I mean by "working". For me, reading information on a screen is not working. Work is when you add value, so when you actually produce something with the information you have. An iPad may be a great tool to READ informatio, at the most take notes, but to produce something it is pretty poor and limited in many aspects. Yes, you can always man…

"For me, reading information on a screen is not working. Work is when you add value, so when you actually produce something with the information you have."

The total market for portable computing devices is growing, and the replacement of e.g. paper manuals by tablets might be one of the reasons. This is work by my definition.

"There is no reason for desktops to become more expensive, though. As long as they are built with mass-market technology, of course."

Many desktops in companies can probably be replaced by tablets/mobile devices. I'm in an open plan staffroom with 60 desks and 60 PCs. Many of my fellow teachers would be very comfortable with a tablet that could talk to a projector somehow and some good writing sketching software. We could halve the number of desktops easily, perhaps just have 10 on desks in the side of the room.

Multiply that all over and you have a reduced market in numbers for desktops.

PS: not sure why your comment is being downvoted, just depends on definition of 'work'. Mine is different.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#53

Post by keithpeter »

ekianjo wrote: post #41
keithpeter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But by far, most businesses still need laptops and proper desktops to work. Sometime you need a big screen. Most of the time you want to have a keyboard, a good one, to type fast. You want to have the precision of the mouse of do things on screen." Absolutely, I need those things... for about 15% of my working time. I suspect lot of people in roles where access to information is needed with minimal modification or a…

> Absolutely, I need those things... for about 15% of my working time. By curiosity, what do you do the rest of your working time?

I talk to people. (I'm a teacher)

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#54

Post by AllenKids »

steverb wrote: post #51
AllenKids wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really there is very little worth mentioning beside the keyboard covers. And Microsoft does not allow anyone to touch the keyboard covers. Whose fault is that? It is not record setting thin, or impossibly light, it has worse screen than the retina iPad, battery life is not mentioned at all, neither is th price,the look is quite minimalist and good, but not new or stunningly interesting ... pray tell, what's so awesom…

The fact that with the Pro Version I can run whatever software on it I want. We are salivating over these at an enterprise level as it solves several major problems for us (if they work as advertised). It means that rather than buying sales types an Air/Ultrabook along with supporting their iPad/Android we can buy them the surface pro and hand them a Windows Phone and have easy integration. Microsoft understands the…

But that's software isn't it? The Surface Pro hardware is just an Intel Tablet (albeit the slickest one), with the real keyboard cover, this is thicker than a MBA 11", roughly the same weight, unknown battery life and price.

Hold the 11" MBA in your hand, pretend it is a tablet, see how that works out ergonomically.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#55

Post by antidoh »

"Microsoft this week showed itself willing to do what was once unthinkable: design and sell its own PC hardware. ... But make no mistake: for better or for worse, Surface marks a watershed moment in PC industry history."

That remains to be seen, and depends on Microsoft being willing and able to stick with the Surface. They could easily screw this up, like the Kin, or lose interest and energy like the Zune.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#56

Post by antidoh »

latch wrote: post #2

Microsoft this week showed itself willing to do what was once unthinkable: design and sell its own computer hardware What about the Zune, Kin and Xbox. Two of them might have been disasters, but clearly MS has a history of designing hardware. They are giving too much choice (1). To me, the real issue is availability. They shouldn't have had the press conference until the device was available on the same day. They _al…

"What about the Zune, Kin and Xbox."

They abandoned two of those.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#57

Post by antidoh »

ekianjo wrote: post #22

These stories about the "post-PC future" always make me laugh, I still dont see people working on iPads in real offices where you do REAL work. The future of computing is going to be fragmented. Not unified by a single tablet model. Every time something new comes up we always get the same BS: "netbooks are going to replace computers". "iPhones are going to replace computers", "ipads are going to replace computers". G…

"I still dont see people working on iPads in real offices where you do REAL work."

Agree. Apple software has very little Enterprise presence.

I see a few people bring iPads to meetings (they could be Androids, but I assume iPad). They quietly look at them once in awhile. Whatever it is they do with them has no effect on the rest of the meeting.

Contrast that with people bringing their laptops to meetings, connecting to the corporate network, and then editing the corporate collection of bits (databases and documents) live and collaboratively. That's done with Microsoft software.

Unless Apple or another player decides to go full Enterprise, that part of MS will be around for a long time, running on whatever supports that.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#58

Post by antidoh »

keithpeter wrote: post #52
ekianjo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do see people working with iPads quite often. Maybe I should clarify what I mean by "working". For me, reading information on a screen is not working. Work is when you add value, so when you actually produce something with the information you have. An iPad may be a great tool to READ informatio, at the most take notes, but to produce something it is pretty poor and limited in many aspects. Yes, you can always man…

"For me, reading information on a screen is not working. Work is when you add value, so when you actually produce something with the information you have." The total market for portable computing devices is growing, and the replacement of e.g. paper manuals by tablets might be one of the reasons. This is work by my definition. "There is no reason for desktops to become more expensive, though. As long as they are buil…

"Many of my fellow teachers would be very comfortable with a tablet that could talk to a projector somehow and some good writing sketching software."

That's probably good for short and "casual" writing. But for long distance writing, most people can type much faster than they can write, and most people can type much more legibly than they can write.

Which is hugely ironic, given the bandwagon of reducing emphasis on handwriting skills in favor of keyboarding skills in schools. For devices without keyboards, we'll either be using glass keyboards with their tactile inaccuracy, or styluses with OCR software behind them that will have to contend with increasingly terrible handwriting.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#59

Post by antidoh »

noveltyaccount wrote: post #4
Tloewald wrote: post #3

I think Surface could be a pretty compelling product if all the stars align, but the fact that Microsoft wouldn't even let members of the press touch a working keyboard and the overall fragmented quality of the launch does not bode well.

I question the timing; it seemed rushed to get in front of Google I/O. The press had to stand behind a roped-off table of Surfaces to take photos. Clearly the hardware and software is not ready--nor does it have to be for an October-ish launch. But why did they have to demo it now when the press couldn't have their way with it? All that said: take my money. I want one of each.

"But why did they have to demo it now"

Someone with power allowed their ego to make that decision. It must be now, because of something that some other company is or isn't doing. Damn the engineering, full speed ahead.

Re: Surface: Between a Rock and a Hardware Place

#60

Post by antidoh »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #13

I clicked on this story expecting the usual blatantly biased and totally pointless drivel from this guy. I wasn't disappointed. He keeps raising the bar for embarrassing tech commentary and that's why I will keep reading him knowing full well I shouldn't waste my time on that kind of trolling. Now I'm even wasting your time by commenting on it. Please vote me down to -10 or I'll have to fagellate myself for an entire…

It's OK, the discussion that he generated here on HN is well worth whatever flaws are in his post.
Post reply on HN