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The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

notyourlanguage.com

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Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#51
post #6

I think this is a great article explaining exactly why it's okay to step off the career progression ladder and say this is what I want to do. The alternative is the Peter principle where you end up promoted upwards until you fail. OP, I wonder if you had frank talks with your line management about your long term career trajectory or if this was a sudden realization?

> The alternative is the Peter principle where you end up promoted upwards until you fail. I mean... to play devil’s advocate, if each promotion accelerates the compounding of your investments to the point where by the time you fail you’ve already reached financial independence, then oh well? Can always go back down the ladder or jump to different types of ladders at your convenience then.

I'd love to live in a world where failure is free, but this aint it. This seems like it has potential to poison your image and potentially harm others as well.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#52

There are many different types of "dangerous" things you can do for your career, and some are worse (and more permanent) than others. The most "dangerous" thing for my career was when I started posting about what's happening in Gaza and Palestine on my public social media accounts. I've heard similar horror stories from others, ranging from being let go from their jobs to missing out on new opportunities and position…

Yeah, freedom of speech used to be sacred... No longer.

[deleted]

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#53

There are many different types of "dangerous" things you can do for your career, and some are worse (and more permanent) than others. The most "dangerous" thing for my career was when I started posting about what's happening in Gaza and Palestine on my public social media accounts. I've heard similar horror stories from others, ranging from being let go from their jobs to missing out on new opportunities and position…

Since you mentioned Gaza and Palestine, I assume you are against Israel’s response. I don’t want to turn this comment section into that at all. I just wanted to say I feel that I can’t speak in support of Israel. The opposite can also be true.

Again, not wanting to turn this into a Palestine/Gaza/Israel thing just pointing out that people on the other side feel the same way.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#54
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change This goes beyond just engineering- people generally get more like this in all aspects of life as they get older, and I believe you can prevent it by deciding not to be that way, and taking actions to not be that way. Personally, I feel that I was very rigid and closed minded when I was younger, and I've been learning and working on how to be less l…

I think we must remember to mention "rationality" in such conversations whenever we speak of things like "rigidity". Rigidity is a kind of irrational stubbornness, and unwillingness to consider alternatives when reason compels otherwise. Someone who is principled and has a reasoned basis for his principles isn't stubborn or rigid. He's principled. His certainty isn't irrational, because it is rooted in the best justi…

Good point, those are totally different things, but it is often hard for someone else to tell the difference unless you explain.... explaining can also be a complex issue in office politics, because some people will see explaining as seeking and requiring their approval, and therefore subordinating yourself to them.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#55
post #35

I enjoyed the article and it reminded me of many experiences in my career. However, this sentence bothers me: “I felt like by 40 I needed to move on from engineering because if I didn’t, I’d be like the few older workers I’d dealt with in my career. I felt like they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change - even when faced with evidence to the contrary.” I’m in my forties and none of those thin…

I don't feel that way either. But the 40+ year old devs when I was a fresh faced kid where from a whole different world. One guy wouldn't let go of Novell running on DOS. There are hard paradigm switches sometimes in tech, but many fewer today than back then. Every big switch loses some people that decide, "nope don't like it" and don't keep up.

I really, really think that most ageism in tech is driven by similar memories of the old crowd when we were coming up. I mean, I fought for years (years!) to get Linux accepted by the older devs and had to sneak Postgres past the Oracle greybeards. Yet I am not that person blocking progress now, nor do I see the same with my peers. If a new tech has merit, we learn it. We grew up with tech and are plenty used to making those switches.

If anything, I'm way better at handling change than when I was younger and headstrong. And 25 years in industry has given me lots of practice.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#56

There are many different types of "dangerous" things you can do for your career, and some are worse (and more permanent) than others. The most "dangerous" thing for my career was when I started posting about what's happening in Gaza and Palestine on my public social media accounts. I've heard similar horror stories from others, ranging from being let go from their jobs to missing out on new opportunities and position…

Since you mentioned Gaza and Palestine, I assume you are against Israel’s response. I don’t want to turn this comment section into that at all. I just wanted to say I feel that I can’t speak in support of Israel. The opposite can also be true. Again, not wanting to turn this into a Palestine/Gaza/Israel thing just pointing out that people on the other side feel the same way.

In the US the more mainstream position is to support Israel, and only recently has there been a semblance in the change in trajectory. That's why both major parties come out in support of Israel.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech has never meant freedom from consequences, particularly in one's dealings with private individuals or corporations. At best it's supposed to mean no reprisals from public institutions, such as the TSA, IRS, DMV, and the like.

It should if you have some semblance of professionalism. At work I don’t want to know nor want to know about the politics of the people working with me. If I’m engaged in a business transaction I don’t care about the personal views of the person I’m buying or selling from. Call me old fashioned but the world used to be that way before the rise of social media addictions and the current online echo chambers in our soc…

Pick the “wrong” group you find utterly distasteful (Nazi, anti-Nazi, conservative, liberal, gay, homophobic, etc).

If I find the person’s views abhorrent, not a surprise I would choose not to do business with them if I had alternatives.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#58
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I think it is unfounded, but it's still a visceral belief and those can be hard to overcome. I'm hoping with time I can change my feelings on it.

Because I am the bluebird of happiness, there are a couple of things you may want to be aware of here. " I’d be like the few older workers I’d dealt with in my career. I felt like they moved too slow, were stuck in their ways, and unable to change - even when faced with evidence to the contrary. " First, keep in mind that many of your co-workers will still feel this way, even if you provide evidence to the contrary.…

This is only tangentially related to the main topic of the post, but thought I might ask for your thoughts on a similar dynamic.

My thesis is that companies should not be (or just be much less) functionally org'd—that is, not divided into Engineering, Marketing, Design, Sales, etc. And that this is the root-ish of many typical problems. I don't really need to argue that's true for my question, but given that most companies are that then leads to functional managers—ie. Engineering Manager or Director of Engineering. The role of that manager sometimes involves being in the weeds of specific work, but mostly doesn't. It's usually not architecting or coding, but mentoring and maybe allocating work. The latter of which might formally be a a responsibility, but is embedded in a network of other people's needs that does some pre-determining.

What does that manager do—and I suppose how do they sleep at night if they care about their work—given they're the mentor and blocker of their IC's rise? What I mean is that if the career path for the IC is sorta mythical, how does that manager guide them? If they're honest, then they're also kinda describing their own role as a bit pointless. That would be a reason the IC shouldn't aspire to the role coming from someone who did and now remains (happily?) in it. Engineering is probably the least problematic in this regard because it tends have a bit of power and sometimes isolation within a company. But take something like design, which fights all the time with product because half of the career path/duties for product design (less so brand or visual designers) is blocked by product. So when a designer tells their manager they're having problems with their PM, there is (1) nothing power-wise for the manager to do because neither they nor their bosses are in the chain of command of product and (2) they themselves never resolved this incompatibility. The best they've done is maybe launched something in spite of it. Or maybe (to the company's benefit?) not launched things because of it.

Does the functional manager just give (knowingly or unknowingly) pseudo-career-advice out of circumstance because that's the job of maintaining civility? Is this mostly a matter of everyone all around (managers and otherwise) looking the other way because employment?

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#59
It's said that people rise to the level of their incompetence. Some leaders might see this and think, this guy is dangerous and we can't have that. If I were a leader at his firm and I got that email I'd be thrilled. If everyone admit their limits and thought like this all companies would run more smoothly. He rises to the level of maximum competence, the perfect place for him, he won't be bitter about not getting the next promotion and cause trouble by leaving for seemingly greener pastures, and he will be reliable in handling his work load because he's comfortable with it. People like this are valuable assets in an organization, it's a shame that a lot of people don't see it, they look upon ladder climbing as admirable, but ambition is about taking you where you want to be, recognizing when you've achieved that is much more admirable.

Re: The Most Dangerous Email (to my career) I've Sent

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mentioned Gaza and Palestine, I assume you are against Israel’s response. I don’t want to turn this comment section into that at all. I just wanted to say I feel that I can’t speak in support of Israel. The opposite can also be true. Again, not wanting to turn this into a Palestine/Gaza/Israel thing just pointing out that people on the other side feel the same way.

In the US the more mainstream position is to support Israel, and only recently has there been a semblance in the change in trajectory. That's why both major parties come out in support of Israel.

> In the US the more mainstream position is to support Israel

The lobbyists for the military/industrial complex are numerous and exceedingly well-paid.

> That's why both major parties come out in support of Israel.

Which is how and why campaign contributions have become a systemic evil - it chains the platforms of politicians to the desires of the wealthy and powerful, thereby eliminating any ability for politicians to “do the morally/ethically correct thing”.

Most of the western world was philosophically “on Israel’s side” because of the unrelenting evil of Hamas -- Hamas does’t care if every single Palestinian dies, so long as they “win”. Plus, genocide of the entire Israeli population has been baked into Hamas’ DNA from the beginning. But with this war, Israel has gone all “hold my beer and watch this”, and is making a legitimately successful bid at becoming the materially greater evil.

It’s an ESH situation, with the Palestinian people caught in the crossfire.

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