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Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

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Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#51

Post by jrflowers »

tmtvl wrote: post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved?

How can you prove that zero children were involved at any point?

How does the model generate CSAM without it either being in the training material or fed to the model as an input?

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#52

Post by jrm4 »

throwaway413486 wrote: post #15
tmtvl wrote: post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? I think there is an empirical question one step beyond this. Does a pedophile who sees AI child porn get inured to it and then go on to try to act out fantasies with real victims? Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? A second order issue is that dist…

At the risk of whatever, I believe we do have good data on this sort of thing when it comes to adults.

It's often noted, if not utterly established, that "internet access" (aka porn access) strongly correlates with (and thus, perhaps causes) lower rates of sexual assault.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#53

Post by jrm4 »

stackghost wrote: post #47
throwaway413486 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? I think there is an empirical question one step beyond this. Does a pedophile who sees AI child porn get inured to it and then go on to try to act out fantasies with real victims? Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? A second order issue is that dist…

>Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? By that logic, if I see regular porn I would not be interested in having sex. I assure you this is not the case, and your premise is flawed.

Except that there is a good bit of data suggesting that access to porn does reduce sexual assault.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#54

Post by Manuel_D »

malfist wrote: post #27
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

It also doesn't apply to most laws. The law doesn't always require a victim or harm. Just look at speeding tickets or DUIs. You don't have to harm someone to wind up in jail

Both of those have clear harms, namely increased risks of traffic collisions.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#56

Post by nickthegreek »

jrflowers wrote: post #51
tmtvl wrote: post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? How can you prove that zero children were involved at any point? How does the model generate CSAM without it either being in the training material or fed to the model as an input?

It somehow generates flying pigs without them existing. Substitute pigs for an other animal if your next argument is that flying pigs might be in the database.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#57

Post by umvi »

meowface wrote: post #28
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? The "harm" principle which is very popular these days to see if things are bad or good or punishable or not, I think it has a lot of problems. There are a lot of things that don't map onto this principle well. Social cohesion is a huge one. Something may not directly harm someone, but it can harm the fabric of society and many other things.

Not saying I agree with legally permitting this kind of thing, but just addressing your comment: If the government can throw you in prison for something, it better be for a good reason. If it's simply doing something "that doesn't harm anyone but is perceived as not conducive to social cohesion", that doesn't seem like a good reason. Many conservatives would say gay marriage, polyamory, tattoos, porn, foul language,…

I agree with you, but I would rephrase it as "people should have the freedom to do certain harmful things without going to jail for it".

For example, insulting someone, or self harming. Even things that "don't harm anyone" actually do, it's just the scale is too small to be measurable at the individual level. For example, substance abuse. If one people does it, it's hard to measure the harm to society. But if 300M people do it, it's easy.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#58

Post by fear-anger-hate »

stackghost wrote: post #47
throwaway413486 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? I think there is an empirical question one step beyond this. Does a pedophile who sees AI child porn get inured to it and then go on to try to act out fantasies with real victims? Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? A second order issue is that dist…

>Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? By that logic, if I see regular porn I would not be interested in having sex. I assure you this is not the case, and your premise is flawed.

Way to dismiss a solid argument based on an anecdote. I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that porn has nothing to do with seeking out real life sex, especially given how it has been widely studied that the amount of sex young adults are having has been steadily going down since the end of 90's.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#60

Post by shkkmo »

throwaway413486 wrote: post #15
tmtvl wrote: post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? I think there is an empirical question one step beyond this. Does a pedophile who sees AI child porn get inured to it and then go on to try to act out fantasies with real victims? Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? A second order issue is that dist…

Allowing AI generated realistic CSAM while prohibiting real CSAM creates a real enforcement problem. Do prosecutors now need to find and identify depicted victims to prove a CSAM charge? Does believing material was AI generated serve as a defense?

We already have severe limitations on fictional depictions of this type of content so prosecuting AI depictions isn't anything particularly new.

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