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Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

ecuadorembassyuk.org.uk

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Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#51

Post by objclxt »

wvenable wrote: post #41
objclxt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting really tired now. Assange and his legal team have tried every possible angle . Sweden has very different laws to say the US. This is not unexpected. The English courts have determined that Sweden's justice system is fair and balanced. Assange attempted to avoid extradition by arguing Sweden didn't have the right to issue an arrest warrant, not that he was going to get an unfair trial. This is an act o…

Assange stayed in Sweden for 5 weeks to be interrogated and only left Sweden after asking permission to do so from the Swedish Prosecutor. Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.

And now they would like him back to ask some more questions.

Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#52

Post by AJ007 »

objclxt wrote: post #25
Muzza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though I back his politics 100%, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial. With Sweden's looney toons laws, I strongly disagree.

This is getting really tired now. Assange and his legal team have tried every possible angle . Sweden has very different laws to say the US. This is not unexpected. The English courts have determined that Sweden's justice system is fair and balanced. Assange attempted to avoid extradition by arguing Sweden didn't have the right to issue an arrest warrant, not that he was going to get an unfair trial. This is an act o…

For an individual to be unwilling to face the law in a country they are not a citizen sounds completely rational to me. Even in the US, with a pretty "fair and balanced" legal system by international standards, innocent people still end up in prison for decades, are executed, etc.

Then again, Julian Assange could very well be safe in a Swedish prison, relatively impervious to a drone strike.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#54

Post by wvenable »

objclxt wrote: post #51
wvenable wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange stayed in Sweden for 5 weeks to be interrogated and only left Sweden after asking permission to do so from the Swedish Prosecutor. Saying this is all about avoid accusations of sexual assault seems to contradict the actual facts.

And now they would like him back to ask some more questions. Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).

If the prosecution is politically motivated then seeking asylum is appropriate. How do we resolve this question? There are some circumstantial reasons to believe that it is politically motivated. However, we just don't know.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#55

Post by marshray »

objclxt wrote: post #27
wilfra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has nothing to do with this. Sweden is trying to have him extradited from the UK for a sexual assault charge.

Exactly. This is all about Assange not wanting to be questioned about sexual assault. All this posturing about how the US wants him is a smoke screen - Ecuador has an extradition treaty with the US . Assange may be completely innocent: trying to desperately avoid being questioned about the alleged offences doesn't paint a great picture.

He presented himself for questioning before he left Sweden. They told him he was free to leave. My understanding is that also Sweden will sometimes conduct such questioning via remote video link, but they have declined to do that in this case. It's been well over a year, it's not like they couldn't charge him without questioning if they wanted to.

I'm not really sure what's going down here, except it seems the least likely possibility is that Sweden wants to give him a fair trial for the sex allegations.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#56

Post by iamdave »

johnny22 wrote: post #13
iamdave wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I severely doubt it'd go so far as execution, sudden disappearance into a political black hole never to be heard from again? More likely.

then what exactly are they waiting for. He's not likely to get any lower profile until past the time anybody cares (including the government)

What's your proposition? Fly to Ecquador, kick in the embassy doors and abduct a man seeking asylum?

It'd make for one heck of a news day, but I don't think it's that easy.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#57

Post by objclxt »

rickmb wrote: post #47

Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not.

Two women have accused Assange of rape. They have a fundamental right under law to due process. Assange is attempting to deny them this due process by evading the Swedish courts.

Sweden's justice system really isn't corrupt. Assange knows this. His lawyers know this. If Assange thought he wouldn't get a fair trial he would have argued this point in the English courts. Many people have avoided extradition from the UK to various unpleasant places on the basis they wouldn't get a fair trial.

His legal argument was flimsy at best. Assange tried to argue Sweden lacked the authority to issue the arrest warrant in the first place, an argument that was basically laughed out of court. However, the English courts have had a lot of patience for Assange, and have offered him several avenues of appeal on the basis it's an important and high profile case. The Supreme Court even allowed an additional submission after their judgement (this is very unusual).

This is a criminal case involving two parties. Both parties have guaranteed rights. Think about the women involved for a second. They have accused Assange of rape. Perhaps they are lying: Assange is after all innocent until proven guilty. But is it out of the question they are telling the truth? No, it's not.

And that is why Assange should really willingly return to Sweden to face his accusers. He isn't willing, and his arguments about fearing the US really aren't that convincing given the UK is more than happy to extradite people to the states.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#58

Post by drcube »

sp332 wrote: post #18
drcube wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the UK decided to extradite him to Sweden for rape charges? While Wikileaks is certainly a motivating factor, and I'm sure it's why this story gets as much press as it does, I don't think it's where his legal problems stem from. As far as I know, the US has nothing to do with it.

He has not (yet) been charged. It says this in the article.

Then how in the world has the UK decided to extradite him to Sweden? Don't you have to be charged with something first? I'm a legal idiot, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

EDIT: Nevermind, cousin comment said he is wanted for a second round of questioning in Sweden before they actually charge him. I still don't understand how something as serious as extradition can be used for "questioning", without any charges at all.

Could some random country say they wanted to ask me something and the US would just ship me overseas involuntarily?? That is a terrifying thought.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#59

Post by Tycho »

wilfra wrote: post #10
pvnick wrote: post #5

How dire is Assange's situation? Is it really possible that the US will try to imprison or even execute him? Edit: I know were not talking directly about the US here, but the reason I made the jump is that I see Sweden as a lot more likely to allow the US to bully it into giving up Assange

The US has nothing to do with this. Sweden is trying to have him extradited from the UK for a sexual assault charge.

Not only is it pretty suspicious that this rape charge should pop up at exactly the time of Assange's ascendency into persona non Guantanamo status, but it gets even fishier when you consider the nature of the accusation. The allegation is that his condom burst during intercourse and he did not stop - in other words it's one of the few crimes for which he cannot possibly have an alibi or a supporting witness or even physical evidence (ie. lack of physical harm).

Anyone who doesn't think the US government is behind this is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy

#60

Post by gringomorcego »

objclxt wrote: post #57
rickmb wrote: post #47

Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…

It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…

"Sweden's justice system really isn't corrupt."

http://falkvinge.net/2011/09/05/cable-reveals-extent-of-lapd...

Wah wah.

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