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Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

giansegato.com

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Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#51

I’d want to see extensive research on the benefits of Ed-Tech products before they are unleashed on classrooms full of actual students. “Making things easier for teachers” is often not the case and simultaneously creates costs for training and support at these institutions along with the exponential growth required to administer these new roles. And then of course are the students themselves. How do iPads compare to…

Yah. I am a teacher and I'm deeply skeptical of ed-tech. There is no substitute for doing the work (as the teacher or as the student).

I like that I have an automated gradebook and communications tool. I like that I can e-mail students and accept work done outside the room via Google Docs. And it's pretty great to be able to present slides from me or students, or occasionally look at a Desmos or Jupyter notebook. Khan is neat to get an instant read or to allow students to hear a topic explained a different way than I do. Playing a game in Gimkit is a way to break up the monotony of a class. I privately advise students they might want to consider Anki as a way to increase their long term retention of information.

Even though I've named a lot of technology, these things are about 10% of what we do. Even when I'm teaching about technology, a huge portion we do is pen, paper, careful thought, and discussion. I know students aren't trying to game; I know they've produced their own work; I know they've not become over-reliant on a crutch. And beyond this, the fundamental reason why a classroom works is not some assumption of my authority or my use of grades for leverage: it works based on the social connections formed in a classroom between the teacher and students, and between students with each other. Too much time on screens interrupts this.

Of course, I'd love high quality research to help guide me in making better choices in the room, but actionable educational research that has good enough methodology to be believed is rare.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a lot of schools in my last company and unfortunately I don't think extensive research is the best road either. While I totally understand your position, this excuse is also used for only allowing pen and paper for math in highschool by teachers. It takes a crazy amount of time to extensively research and prove things in education for a few reasons: There is opposition to doing the research because teac…

Certainly computers/calculators are useful sometimes (in particular when analyzing measured data), but for say 95% of mathematics, pen+paper seems appropriate? Taught properly, it's a highly pictorial subject and pen+paper is an extremely flexible medium.

A primary way that computers could ultimately help is additional ability to individualize content and to provide students with spaced repetition of practice on topics. I am building systems in these areas for my students, but they're offline (they print out and automatically grade worksheets to track student competence in areas).

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a lot of schools in my last company and unfortunately I don't think extensive research is the best road either. While I totally understand your position, this excuse is also used for only allowing pen and paper for math in highschool by teachers. It takes a crazy amount of time to extensively research and prove things in education for a few reasons: There is opposition to doing the research because teac…

My wife is an active, publishing education researcher who is currently doing in-classroom research related to technology. It's really hard to make random control groups because schools want to put kids in classrooms by their process, not the whims of the researchers. IRBs won't let this happen in actual classrooms. The allowed approach is typically extracurricular summer schools where everyone is aware of the researc…

> Isn't it worth the effort to do the research instead of just seeing what happens when venture-backed companies introduce their for-profit wares into the classroom?

On the IT side of things a while ago it was mainly about grabbing as much hardware as possible and then waiting for them to get bored and fuck off.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#54

I’d want to see extensive research on the benefits of Ed-Tech products before they are unleashed on classrooms full of actual students. “Making things easier for teachers” is often not the case and simultaneously creates costs for training and support at these institutions along with the exponential growth required to administer these new roles. And then of course are the students themselves. How do iPads compare to…

There have been many startups that have been just this. They all have died except for a very few.

Most of my edtech founder friends were motivated to serve and transform education because it didn’t work for them and they realized it didn’t work for most students.

Codeacademy is a good example of a successful one.

Companies that succeeded, in some cases enabling inner city school children to perform on at a college level, died. CiteLighter is a good example. There have been countless ones in math.

The reason the bad edtech products win is because they are built to survive the incredibly disjointed buying groups who all have, explicitly, their own agendas when it comes to anything in the classroom.

If students & teachers could decide where their classroom’s tech budget went, there would be a revolution in education in half a generation.

But they are dead last on the list today.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#55

I’d want to see extensive research on the benefits of Ed-Tech products before they are unleashed on classrooms full of actual students. “Making things easier for teachers” is often not the case and simultaneously creates costs for training and support at these institutions along with the exponential growth required to administer these new roles. And then of course are the students themselves. How do iPads compare to…

do you also demand extensive academic research for benefits of tools for developers, business etc? Yes, there is an issue with tools and software that creates more problems that they solve (just as in business) but that doesnt mean all technology is bad.

The environment of a school is much more rigid and authoritarian than many workplaces (e.g. everyone must use this exact thing in this exact way all together right now), and students don't usually have much choice in their school. The tools are often taxpayer funded as well. Not to mention the fact that those affected by ed-tech are often minors. So I think it's reasonable for there to be some extra scrutiny surrounding a lot of ed-tech.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#56

there is also not that much money in the state run that the majority of people education follow. Teacher salaries are already squeezed. Its ironic, everyone says get a good education, old grumps complain the kids don’t know anything, but when it comes to actually paying for it its crickets. Software could help make teaching more efficient but requires up front investment that no one wants to make. State run software…

My local school district has fewer than 48,000 students, and an annual operating budget of $1.2bn.

This money is used to pay for 13,500 adults (government employees).

Their total compensation is higher than you'd think. You can look it up on the Transparent California web site.

Paying those people seems to be a higher priority than children or learning outcomes.

The problem is not a lack of expenditure.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#58

Isn't this just a subset of "all educational innovations don't scale". Education is chock-full of things that looked great at small scale and then fail to replicate at large scale. Given that long established reality, which is well known within the education field, the alleged scaling nature of software no longer seems like some great win, since you're likely just quickly scaling out something that doesn't actually w…

there is that, but that's not true for all changes.

the problem is that even innovations that do work and can be replicated successfully do not scale because the system as it is is highly resistive to change and that is what limits the potential to scale for any change.

take a look at montessori. an often praised and proven system of teaching and learning that absolutely revolutionizes education, if we could only convince those in charge to adopt it.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#59

K-12: from kindergarten to 12th grade Had to look it up,

The more common nomenclature is P-12. Pre-school has been accepted and included as "school" for a while under public education funding in many areas.

in the united states the terminology is reversed. "kindergarten" starts at age 5 for one year before school. "preschool" is everything before kindergarten. so there it's pre-school as in not-school, whereas elsewhere it's pre-school as in the year just before school.

Re: Why Ed-Tech Startups Don't Scale (2022)

#60

there is also not that much money in the state run that the majority of people education follow. Teacher salaries are already squeezed. Its ironic, everyone says get a good education, old grumps complain the kids don’t know anything, but when it comes to actually paying for it its crickets. Software could help make teaching more efficient but requires up front investment that no one wants to make. State run software…

(School)teachers used to have that kind of social status, not even a hundred years ago. It would be interesting to understand how that changed into the current situation (up to the worst case of the parents calling out for the lynching of a teacher).

going out on a whim here, i think it is lack of trust. in the past teachers and students came from the same community, so everyone knew each other, and had the same beliefs. but now school is more distant and the education curriculum sometimes no longer reflects what parents expect. just look at the popularity of homeschooling. "we have to send our children to that school because the government demands it (and we can't afford homeschooling), not because we think that this is a good school."
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