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What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

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Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#51

Post by oezi »

pdubouilh wrote: post #2

ABSTRACT: Germany has one of the most ambitious energy transition policies dubbed ‘Die Energiewende’ to replace nuclear- and fossil power with renewables such as wind-, solar- and biopower. The climate gas emissions are reduced by 25% in the study period of 2002 through 2022. By triangulating available information sources, the total nominal expenditures are estimated at EUR 387 bn, and the associated subsidies are so…

If 350bn is all we need to cut our emissions in Germany (we have a 4000bn annual GDP) by 75%, then I don't get what the big fuss about climate change is. Every industrial country could cough up such small an amount (loan, Fed printing money, etc).

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#52

Post by acchow »

oezi wrote: post #50
wrKaxnc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is stationing nuclear capable missiles again, with the approval of the Green Party, which had been at the forefront of the anti Pershing-II protests but is now a war party: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-shrugs-off-putin-comments-on-u... If that is possible, why not pebble bed reactors?

The age of Nuclear is over and won't be coming back. The technology trajectories are now just in favor of solar and batteries. Everything else has no chance.

China this week just approved 11 new nuclear power plants, including a 4th Gen. Last year they approved 10. They currently have 56 in operation.

I would hardly say the age of nuclear is over.

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#53

Post by amai »

This would have been interesting if it would have been published in 2011. But what is the point of publishing this nowadays after all nuclear reactors have been shutdown? They cannot be restarted and are already been dismantled. Also why don’t we see publications like: „What if Germany had invested in solar energy?“ (instead of subsidizing coal and diesel engines)

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#54

Post by defensive7132 »

aniviacat wrote: post #16
defensive7132 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always supported nuclear power. It's just the best we have right now. Renewable power is all good and all, but technology is not there yet. Plus, many people in support of green energy never think about all the mining done for this and how it impacts and often destroys environments. It's OK when it's not your environment being hurt. :-) Anyways, nuclear power is safer than people think. And most, if not all, nuclea…

> most, if not all, nuclear power disasters were due to human error How is this less of an issue? Are modern reactors not built and operated by humans? We have better sensors and more digital components now, which reduce the risk. But the risk for a wind turbine is, and always was, zero.

"risk of a wind turbine is, and always was, zero" seems like you need to check on how many people die a year while maintaining wind turbines.

Fukushima accident: corruption

Chernobyl: incompetence

Three mile island accident: that's a bit more nuanced than just human error, but nothing we haven't fixed already

SL-1: suicide-murder/human error

Those are the serious accidents. As you may see, all are perfectly fixable. Plus, current nuclear plants are more advanced. Now while you have on your mind these 4 accidents, consider that currently there are 403 in use plants and oldest one is over 60 years. All working with no issue.

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#55

Post by jojobas »

lhndan wrote: post #41
jojobas wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Saudi Arabia minded their own business and didn't issue ultimatums to NATO to expel members or else.

That is debatable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi-led_intervention_in_the_... The Yemen war is/was pretty brutal, and SA happened to back the ousted president. The even called the war an "operation" (sound familiar?). We could also go back further to Saudi Bin Laden support, which was conveniently ignored in all business deals.

Saudi attack on Houthis is not a threat to the Western world.

If anything, Houthis are even more backwards than Saudis.

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#56

Post by aniviacat »

defensive7132 wrote: post #54
aniviacat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most, if not all, nuclear power disasters were due to human error How is this less of an issue? Are modern reactors not built and operated by humans? We have better sensors and more digital components now, which reduce the risk. But the risk for a wind turbine is, and always was, zero.

"risk of a wind turbine is, and always was, zero" seems like you need to check on how many people die a year while maintaining wind turbines. Fukushima accident: corruption Chernobyl: incompetence Three mile island accident: that's a bit more nuanced than just human error, but nothing we haven't fixed already SL-1: suicide-murder/human error Those are the serious accidents. As you may see, all are perfectly fixable.…

How is human error fixable?

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#57

Post by oezi »

acchow wrote: post #52
oezi wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age of Nuclear is over and won't be coming back. The technology trajectories are now just in favor of solar and batteries. Everything else has no chance.

China this week just approved 11 new nuclear power plants, including a 4th Gen. Last year they approved 10. They currently have 56 in operation. I would hardly say the age of nuclear is over.

Given that there are roughly 500 reactors in operation and they last up to 40-50 years, this is just keeping the status quo.

The share of nuclear electricity has been slipping.

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#58

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

acchow wrote: post #52
oezi wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age of Nuclear is over and won't be coming back. The technology trajectories are now just in favor of solar and batteries. Everything else has no chance.

China this week just approved 11 new nuclear power plants, including a 4th Gen. Last year they approved 10. They currently have 56 in operation. I would hardly say the age of nuclear is over.

Authoritarian state still keeping a toe in for military and pragmatic reasons. With communistic 5 year plan system you can through sheer force build a few reactors to keep the option open.

For every passing year they’ve been pulling back their nuclear ambitions in favor of renewables.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/chinas-quiet-energy-revolution-t...

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#59

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

defensive7132 wrote: post #54
aniviacat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most, if not all, nuclear power disasters were due to human error How is this less of an issue? Are modern reactors not built and operated by humans? We have better sensors and more digital components now, which reduce the risk. But the risk for a wind turbine is, and always was, zero.

"risk of a wind turbine is, and always was, zero" seems like you need to check on how many people die a year while maintaining wind turbines. Fukushima accident: corruption Chernobyl: incompetence Three mile island accident: that's a bit more nuanced than just human error, but nothing we haven't fixed already SL-1: suicide-murder/human error Those are the serious accidents. As you may see, all are perfectly fixable.…

The difference is who gets harmed.

For solar and wind the general public generally can’t be affected by any accidents so the deaths are general work place hazards coming from working aloft with heavy equipment.

For nuclear power the public is on the hook for cleanup fees from hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars and the large scale accidents we have seen caused hundreds of thousands to get evacuated.

It is not even comparable. If I chose to not work in the solar and wind industry my chance of harm is as near zero as it gets. Meanwhile about all consequences from nuclear power afflicts the general public. Both in terms of costs, injuries and life changing evacuations.

Re: What if Germany had invested in nuclear power?

#60

Post by DarkNova6 »

thyristan wrote: post #36
DarkNova6 wrote: post #30

And let's not forget that Germany then decided to create the economically viable solar power industry from scratch. Only to then remove the subsidies, destroy the domestic industry they just created and hand over the technology advantage they had to China. Genious decisions all around.

An industry isn't viable if it can only exist with subsidies.

At the very least it can be brought into existence. Ot shows of strategic foresight and is also what China did to build up their own industrial basis.

In other words, it’s an investment.

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