Live data from Hacker News

What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

countercraft.substack.com

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody shooed me away from the grown-up side of the library when I was a kid. Me neither, but the grown-up side of the library back then did not have instructional books for teenagers on how to have homosexual intercourse. In fact, instructions on having intercourse of any sort weren't in the grown-up side of any library I went to in the 80s. I'd be very surprised if you went to a library that did direct teens and…

Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex? A thing that almost every human on earth engages in, with the desire to do so emerging in their teenage years… It seems completely obvious and normal.

> Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex?

I didn't say it is. It's a problem when a group of adults outside of the formal education system wants to provide instructional material to children against their parents wishes.

I was pointing out that libraries make a call on what legal material to stock and what not to stock. The unstocked material is not in any sense of the word 'banned'.

You are free to provide that material to anyone.

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#52
post #10

Something that used to be popular was the concept of the Western Canon: a core reading list of timeless works for the ages, around which our collective culture revolved. But I don’t think such a thing exists or can exist any more, in our hyper-diverse, hyper-content-stuffed world. As the amount and availability of TV, music, books, films, etc. increases, the odds of meeting somebody who’s had a similar set of cultura…

Yes, well done, the canon is winning the most amount of scorn from academics, HOWEVER. The desire for quality will outlive them all, including big tent slop and long-tail slop.

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#53
post #15

Harry Potter will last. I have not read it but god it is everywhere. I cannot escape it, maybe it's less referenced in Asian cultures. Videogames: I don't play much. But Mario seems likely. Minecraft and Fortnite are very big right now, but they lack memorable main characters so I doubt they survive 25+ years. Music: None of my favorites but Kanye might have 1 song remembered in 50 years. I know friends who got into…

I think the multimedia empire franchise explanation is more likely to explain which of those survive than pure popularity. Minecraft seems like it could be replaced by something else in the same genre, but MS is still actively developing it so maybe it will just evolve. But it seems likely to me new generations will want something for that niche. Something like Harry Potter seems more like the sort of thing that will…

With things like James Bond and Star Trek. Is what is popular their original iterations or later ones? With Star Trek Movies yes, but the original series? Or something reasonably modern like TNG and DS9.

Same could be asked with James Bond, how well do all of the movies do? Or is it some specific pieces that still somewhat resonate.

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that Shakespeare's works have been popular (in the sense of many people wanting to voluntarily consume them) for many generations. Yes, most people even today are familiar with those works to some extent, but that's just an artifact of those people being forced to consume those works repeatedly in high school and possibly again in college or university. When I was in high school in Canada decades ago, a…

> Even among those who claim to "like Shakespeare", they seem to be driven more by wanting to feel "highbrow" rather than any genuine appreciation for the works. This is amusing because evidence suggests that at the time his works were not considered highbrow, and they seem to have been popular with a wide audience.

> This is amusing because evidence suggests that at the time his works were not considered highbrow, and they seem to have been popular with a wide audience.

Yeah. Shakespeare was the Justin Bieber of his time :-)

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#55
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Harry Potter will stand the test of time that well. In the world of Harry Potter, there are no cell phones, no internet, no Google and no AI. For my generation that was no issue at all when we got into the books, because the Internet were fairly obscure in 1997 (as in, not something you would use on a daily basis), Google was just a postdoc project and of course kids didn't have cellphones. 7 books late…

As an aside from your core point about tech, I don't think Harry Potter's universe is particularly well-designed or thoughtful. I mean, I haven't actually read Harry Potter, but having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, and is one of my bigger gripes with the story coming from more mature authors like Brandon Sanders…

> t having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious,

I agree. The magic in Harry Potter is used almost purely as plot armor.

Why does this $MAGIC work but not that $MAGIC? Because the plot requires it.

It's not a good example of universe building at all. The approach in the discworld novels is a lot better.

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#56

I wonder how much of Lovecraft’s popularity has to do with the excellent Call of Cthulhu tabletop RPG (one of the generation of games that targeted everything wrong with Dungeons and Dragons ) and how much it has to do with stories like that becoming so mainstream (e.g. any season of Sailor Moon is about some kind of supernatural-extraterrestrial invasion.)

First things first, let's take a glance back at Weird Tales, the pulp magazine that featured the works of Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft. This magazine eventually laid the groundwork for the cultural exchange that influenced their respective tabletop games. While their concurrent publishing surely pitted them against each other to varying degrees, it also contributed to the reciprocal public reception of their novel depictions of the human condition, psyche, and the surreal, metaphysical underbelly of reality.

One could conclude that the Cthulhu Mythos and the subsequent Neo-noir, Art Deco and Gothic subcultures were erected upon the very site of the largely forgotten ruins of what Lovecraft and his contemporaries authored or cinematized all those years ago, alongside their fashion and architectural underpinnings. The brewing resurgence closely coincided with WW2 coming to a close and leaving its wake a hankering for cultural reawakening. Lovecraft, having passed on with his work still largely unknown to most, but the work preserved by some stubbornly dedicated enthusiasts, and most notably one by the name of August Derleth, who took it upon himself to promote Lovecraft's work, with most of his efforts concentrated in the immediate closing of the theater of war, through a collection of anthologies and continued post-war efforts.

After a decades-long lasting lull that surrounded Lovecraft's yet to take place fandom it became apparent that no other horror carried in it the essence of the ominous sanity stretching terror that our human psyche very much invokes in us regarding the things beyond our senses and as such the monsters and their makeups began losing their footing in the battlegrounds of the mad brains - as Lovecraft's necromantically reconjured body of work congrued within us yet again.

Moving to the modern era of Sandy Petersen's lineage of Mythos, the game designer of Call of Cthulhu who most certainly understood the principles behind the source material and had the design sensibilities to instill these ideas into carryable game plans that bore fruit in communicating these rather novel ideas through the medium of socially unconventional means of self-expression that only such theatrical mode of eloquence as tabletop roleplaying games could hope to summon forth—especially during its formative years, around that era of cooperative gaming in 1981, as Call of Cthulhu's newly found pages were revealed for the new era of fans in the form of its Basic Role-Playing manual[0], published by the house of Chaosium.

The book not only revived H.P. Lovecraft’s work but also placed it under the looking glass of rigorous scrutiny in studying cultural malleability and the maddening hunt in uncovering the sensical faculties of the forgotten one's works. Petersen’s game revitalized the role-playing genre with its way to powerfully evoke imagery that conjures and warps our very subrealities, revealing the hidden: that even in our most orderly and structured boasts, the cosmos remains inscrutable as it coasts.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu_(role-playing_...

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside from your core point about tech, I don't think Harry Potter's universe is particularly well-designed or thoughtful. I mean, I haven't actually read Harry Potter, but having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, and is one of my bigger gripes with the story coming from more mature authors like Brandon Sanders…

You might enjoy HPMOR then, what you described is kind of the whole point of it. https://hpmor.com/

Yes! My son finished the books a couple of times over, but now is dedicated to HP fan fiction, entirely beause he read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It was a suggestion from a friend a few years back, but I very much appreciate you mentioning it here since it might be nice read for someone else as well.

Re: What Lasts and (Mostly) Doesn't Last

#58
post #56

I wonder how much of Lovecraft’s popularity has to do with the excellent Call of Cthulhu tabletop RPG (one of the generation of games that targeted everything wrong with Dungeons and Dragons ) and how much it has to do with stories like that becoming so mainstream (e.g. any season of Sailor Moon is about some kind of supernatural-extraterrestrial invasion.)

First things first, let's take a glance back at Weird Tales, the pulp magazine that featured the works of Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft. This magazine eventually laid the groundwork for the cultural exchange that influenced their respective tabletop games. While their concurrent publishing surely pitted them against each other to varying degrees, it also contributed to the reciprocal public reception of their n…

EDIT: congrued->converged
Post reply on HN