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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#51
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let’s give the richest man on earth who spends more time trolling on Twitter than working more taxpayer dollars for his self enrichment

"This service is awful, let's switch to the better one" You: "and give them money in exchange for services rendered?!!?"

The whole thing is a boondoggle and running a deficit to redistribute more wealth to the top should disgust people. Your strawman is meaningless.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#52

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

I usually despise stack rank, but it looks like there are times when it's needed. Maybe companies should mostly eschew it for other methods, but run it once per decade and flush out all the dead weight, of course, including management.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What “the US” did 50+ years ago has absolutely no say in what “the US” can do now.

Our GDP is about 50x higher now than it was then, in real terms.

Yeah but money can't pay for skill that doesn't exist anymore.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#54
post #22

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

[flagged]

There's no cure though. You can't fix organizations infested with politicians. They're too entrenched. They have an advantage: you, rare competent person, have to focus on both the engineering and the organizational dynamics, whereas these creatures, since they don't believe in world of atoms outcomes, can spend 100% of their time on schemes and on getting rid of gadfly types like you.

Progress depends on creative destruction, not internal reform. The only way we maintain or advance quality as a society is to enable the continual creation of new institutions to compete with sclerotic and terminally politician-infested ones.

When you artificially prop up the latter, you curtail progress overall.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Congress critters use it as a means to spend taxpayer money on purchasing votes. They'll do pretty much anything to avoid having to admit that SLS was a mistake.

Is "Moon Policy" anywhere near the ballot box? Particularly for senators? To the extent it might be, isn't it the inverse problem, to cancel the program is to lose jobs. So they're mostly just being held hostage by the monopoly. The person you are voting for has fantastically small power. Which, is not what we were taught, but it does seem to be the fact.

The topic buying the votes isn't moon policy, it's that they're creating jobs. SLS was being given absurd sums of money for development well before Artemis was a thing.

Canceling SLS would mean losing jobs, yes. But that's not because of some sort of Boeing monopoly on space (they're obviously not a monopoly in that area), it's because the program is designed to be inefficient, with tons of 3rd party suppliers intentionally spread across the entire country, and tons of extra red tape to justify creating more jobs. They and other old school defense contractors specifically advertise these projects with the promise of creating jobs in all 50 states.

I'd disagree on the claim that the senators have fantastically small power on this matter, a single senator was capable of holding back in-space refueling tech for at least a decade under threat of canceling the entire space technologies program (because if you can refuel in space, even launching several medium lift disposable rockets is more efficient, and that'd mean no need for SLS, affecting jobs in his area).

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#56
post #46

> For example, Boeing Defense’s Earned Value Management System (EVMS)—which NASA uses to measure contract cost and schedule progress ... has been disapproved by the Department of Defense since 2020. Officials claim this precludes Boeing from reliably predicting an EUS delivery date. Interesting that instead of commenting on engineering or technology issues, this is basically NASA bureaucrats complaining about Boeing…

Just read a little farther, here are some comments on technical issues: > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and supervision,” the OIG says. “The lack of a trained and qualified workforce increases the risk that Boeing will continue to manufacture parts and components that do not adhere to NASA requirements and industry s…

Fair enough and thanks for pointing that out. Even that focuses on "adhere to NASA requirements" rather than "will it work". In between there's stuff like:

> DCMA also found that Boeing personnel made numerous administrative errors through changes to certified work order data without proper documentation

and

> Some technicians reported they had to hunt through layers of documentation to identify required instructions and documentation of work history and key decisions related to the hardware

It sounds like the focus is more on making documents and reading documents and complying with documents than "will this thing fly?"

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#57

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

You must have seen how beautiful the welds are on the Rocketdyne F-1 joints. Whoever made those put pride in their work.

A welding book I had mentioned that stick welding aluminum is no longer done because it is too hard and used the F-1 stick welds as an example of such welds. I think they we not so much welds as strategic strengthening.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#59
It could just stop at hindering.

I think it's safe to say at this point that Boeing is hindering Americans. Full stop.

I'm a very proud American, my grandfather worked on Apollo, and was a submariner in WWII. Recently Boeing has not made me proud.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#60
post #27

The damage to Boeing is already done I am afraid. But moving forwards there needs to be accountability for management types that destroy companies in such a way. This is a massive destruction of capability for the USA and will continue to be extremely expensive in the future.

NNT wrote Skin in the Game, which discusses such types of managers who cause similar damages.

He argues that there should be clawbacks to managers that harm a company to the degree Boeing’s current management has.

He invokes The Code of Hammurabi to illustrate how ancient civilization used to deal with such class of professionals.

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