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SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

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Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#51

Post by starship »

orangecat wrote: post #27
mhd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic social science articles always read like they're written by Captain Obvious. "1. Do initiate flirtation with people of roughly the same level of attractiveness as yourself. 2. Don’t flirt with people who are unlikely to return your interest." But on the other hand, there's really no easy way out (writing about it, I mean). I've yet to find a more "practical" approach that doesn't read like either semi-useless a…

or just oozes sleaze ("pickup artists", ESR etc.) They may be sleazy, but they're basically right.

The "pickup artist" stuff may ooze sleaze, but as a detailed model for human social interactions it really is the best model that currently exists. This paper is extremely simplistic by comparison.

If you want to have a better understanding of all the intricacies of group dynamics, body language, etc. unfortunately I don't know of any other resource. Does it comes with a lot of BS and sleazy stuff attached? Yes, so just filter that out. But don't ignore it completely, you're doing yourself a disservice. A lot of the power dynamics and body language stuff applies to work situations as well btw...

Sorry, no citations here, just my personal experience, so believe what you want. But I can tell you its like night and day now that I know what to look for.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#52

Post by sirmarksalot »

wallflower wrote: post #32
danso wrote: post #12

This all may be eye-rolling advice but some of it is still worth jogging the subconscious about: > When asked about flirting, most people – particularly men – focus on the verbal element: the ‘chatting-up’, the problems of knowing what to say, finding the right words, etc. In fact, the non- verbal element – body-language, tone of voice, etc. – is much more important, particularly in the initial stages of a flirtation…

> their initial impression of you will be based 55% on your appearance and body-language My female friends tell me that if a guy comes up to talk to them - your body language gives away that you're interested whether you know it or not. You don't have to say it. In fact, it can be awkward if you do say it right away without justifying it (e.g. 'you are hot' v. 'i like your aloofness'). Even the nerdiest person has th…

The problem is that "putting yourself out there" goes against your intuition, and by priming your mind this way, you also turn off the useful parts of your intuition.

If you try to start a conversation in fight-or-flight mode, your body language will betray you, and it will either end quickly or carry on awkwardly.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#53

Post by wisty »

wallflower wrote: post #32
danso wrote: post #12

This all may be eye-rolling advice but some of it is still worth jogging the subconscious about: > When asked about flirting, most people – particularly men – focus on the verbal element: the ‘chatting-up’, the problems of knowing what to say, finding the right words, etc. In fact, the non- verbal element – body-language, tone of voice, etc. – is much more important, particularly in the initial stages of a flirtation…

> their initial impression of you will be based 55% on your appearance and body-language My female friends tell me that if a guy comes up to talk to them - your body language gives away that you're interested whether you know it or not. You don't have to say it. In fact, it can be awkward if you do say it right away without justifying it (e.g. 'you are hot' v. 'i like your aloofness'). Even the nerdiest person has th…

What narcissistic "pickup artists" effectively say is that women also know if a guy is interested in a long-term relationship or a short term one, and will avoid guys who seem too clingy. Asking for a long term relationship is a bad idea, because it's asking for too much, too early.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#55

Post by barrkel »

mhd wrote: post #40
orangecat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or just oozes sleaze ("pickup artists", ESR etc.) They may be sleazy, but they're basically right.

Even if their statistical shenanigans would be scientifically "accurate" (which I still doubt), by no means would I, morally and ethically, consider them "right". I'm the stereotypical reclusive, clinically shy geek, but I've gotten past puberty, and stopped considering penetration to be the "end game". Note that those douchebags seem to be exclusively care about that, there's no "relationship artist" trade that I'm…

Believe it or not, sometimes women are looking for "penetration" as the "end game". Not every encounter is expected to end in a life-long marriage.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#56

Post by VMG »

olliesaunders wrote: post #25
planetguy wrote: post #7

Hacker News: where we discuss advanced programming and elementary social skills. I wonder if there's somewhere out there where it's the reverse.

Isn’t the main reason we are bad at these things because we don’t really care for them. I’m not suggesting we are asexual but that we don’t hold flirting etc. in very high regard.

I think most people are bad at flirting, not just hackers.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#57

Post by Rhino55 »

1. Is flirting your real goal? 4 billion years of evolution says "mmmmmmm...maybe not" google "maniac high no nonsense" if you actually need help with the birds and the bees. Also "ross jeffries lost in space" for another useful perspective. I know these are random queries, they happen to be the ones that put the results you want at the top as opposed to 10 pages in.

2. Some great house music, even a track with an actual build, start 4:50 into the set, google "smoab reinhard". This is from an era in which electronic dance music had...wait for it...HARMONIES.

Enjoy.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#58

Post by throwaway1979 »

Disclaimer: I have great respect for women. If you are a woman, please don't take offense from this post. Because none is intended. As your archetypical computer nerd, I had a very hard time dating. These are things that helped me. I want to share this info with other guys like me. Sort of like ... I wish I knew this when I was young.

----

I had a very hard time with the ladies. Somethings that helped:

- Move to a place with a better male-female ratio.

- Move to a place where you seem like a good catch.

- Seek out women in different professions than tech (I am convinced there are too few geek girls to go around. I never realized how bad the odds were.)

That's it. Seriously. For me, it was about location-location-location. I firmly believe there are certain cities full of women who just tease - they string you along as friends but no more. If you have had no dating success in 1-2 years, you might be in a dating dead-zone.

Some things that helped (but I sucked at doing these):

- Gym

- Good clothes (not by my definition but by a young woman's definition - these did not match at all. We're talking bright colors, shopping at Express ... this nearly brought a tear to my eye.)

- Good haircut (again, I thought I looked like an idiot ... the ladies really like it. Spiky hair=catnip?)

- Read "The Game" - it is not about pick ups. It is about confidence. Frankly, I think the same ideas described in this book for picking up women are used by so-called hustlers and suits in making business deals.

Heh ... maybe I should do a more detailed post on this one day. I clearly spent way too much thinking about this subject when I was single :p

Some important things:

a) DO NOT GET DEPRESSED! There are lots of losers out there. Getting with a loser is easy. One reason you are single is you want something better.

b) DON'T LOSE YOUR IDENTITY!! A lot of women described me as geeky when I was young. So what? I do what I love. That said, I'm okay compromising on clothes. However, when I dated women who wanted to change me completely, it was me who broke it off. That said, I do try to reduce my overall level of geekiness in front of strangers. Don't overwhelm them ;-)

c) DON'T GET DEPRESSED! When you are young, single and geeky, it might seems like the one thing you need to make life work is a mate. That's not true. Trust me. There are benefits to being single - like time to play video games, board games, travel on your own, hack around, read books, attend tech events, whatever you want. Never lose respect for yourself!

Best of luck to all my single, geeky HNers. I hope some of this will help.

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#59

Post by [deleted] »

ajays wrote: post #5

I just read a couple of pages, and this is a great read. "If you are mainly looking for flirting opportunities, . . . . seek out clubs full of happy, sociable under-achievers." It's pure comedy gold, Jerry! Having said that: I hate to stereotype, but I find us geeks (men) to be pretty bad at flirting. I don't know if a 26-page tome will solve that problem or not....

[deleted]

Re: SIRC Guide to Flirting: what social science tells you about flirting

#60

Post by JonnieCache »

1gor wrote: post #54

Ah, SIRC is great. Their British Pub culture guide ( http://www.sirc.org/publik/ptpintro.html ) is the best and I think the only available research on the subject. It really helped me when I moved to the UK...

That pub guide is good. It should be noted that all the stuff about every pub legally having to close at eleven doesn't apply any more. The "last orders" ritual still exists, but it will occur at a later closing time.
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