Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son • Hacker News Board

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#51

Post by Retric » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #32

ChuckMcM wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the great things about writing a letter is that it takes enough time and energy that you invest a bit of thought before you send it. I worry about 21st century thinkers who will be judged not only by the things they chose to write well, but the one-offs they sent out in the heat of the moment over email.

I wonder if some of that impression isn't anachronistic projection, though. Today you think of a letter as something that takes time/energy/thought investment. But it was not at all uncommon for frequent letter-writers of previous eras to write many letters in a day, closer to the way we write emails than the way we write letters. Probably not quite as routine as the average email, but people who wrote thousands of l…

The time spent writing them my be similar to email. But, you could generally change your mind about sending them for much longer than email.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#52

Post by Retric » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 1:39 PM UTC

alexscheelmeyer wrote: post #47

I would be more inclined to accept his message if it could not be boiled down to "If it is not working for you, you are not trying hard enough". Also, more marriages have probably failed due to the husband being a wimpy "I love you every day no matter what"-kind of guy than due to adultery. Adultery is the consequence of a failing marriage, not the cause. When you are the president with power over a nation it can cou…

Adultery is rather common. Estimates vary widely, but 2-4% of children are not biologically related to their 'fathers'. Which only measures female adultery leading to a child add in male adultery it's farm more common than generally acknowledged.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#53

Post by nessus42 » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

I'm not as impressed by this letter as others seem to be. Reagan's only advice is don't cheat and say "I love you" every day? Who goes into a marriage expecting to cheat? And if you even have the slightest inkling of wanting to cheat at the start, you're almost certainly marrying the wrong person. The letter provides no insight that I didn't already have by the time I was ten.

The true challenges of marriage come when the other person doesn't support your ambitions in life, or you don't support theirs. When you feel that they are constantly critical of you, or you of them. When they gain 100 pounds, or when you do. When for no particularly good reason you become engulfed with jealousy. Or they do. When infatuation gives way to whatever deeper feelings lie beneath. Or maybe you discover that the deeper feelings aren't there and you need to cultivate them if the marriage is to survive.

The challenges and joys of marriage are so much deeper than this letter conveys. This letter is like the "Just say no" to drugs campaign. Everything is boiled down to meaningless simplicity.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#54

Post by gadders » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 2:49 PM UTC

myko wrote: post #17

ambertch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot level such a stark criticism against a man who dared to be great - when you do so you embarrass only yourself. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes…

Talk highly of him all you want, his rhetoric has hurt the US far more than it has helped. Between his voodoo economics and ignoring of the AIDs crisis, Iran Contra, the 'Moral Majority', I think you are embarrassing yourself here, not me. He is the epitome of style over substance.

I'd say winning the Cold War was a pretty significant triumph for the man.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#55

Post by jonstjohn » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 2:59 PM UTC

nessus42 wrote: post #53

I'm not as impressed by this letter as others seem to be. Reagan's only advice is don't cheat and say "I love you" every day? Who goes into a marriage expecting to cheat? And if you even have the slightest inkling of wanting to cheat at the start, you're almost certainly marrying the wrong person. The letter provides no insight that I didn't already have by the time I was ten. The true challenges of marriage come whe…

I was moved by the simplicity of the letter, even if it was from a different era. I felt there was more to it than just 'go through the motions' and you'll be fine.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#56

Post by aggronn » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 4:01 PM UTC

nessus42 wrote: post #53

I'm not as impressed by this letter as others seem to be. Reagan's only advice is don't cheat and say "I love you" every day? Who goes into a marriage expecting to cheat? And if you even have the slightest inkling of wanting to cheat at the start, you're almost certainly marrying the wrong person. The letter provides no insight that I didn't already have by the time I was ten. The true challenges of marriage come whe…

I think you glossed over the deeper meaning of the letter, which addresses exactly what you're describing. Its not a how-to on the various problems you may or may not face, written during a time when the only problem with marriage was male infidelity--its a overarching philosophy where he only used one example for illustration.

You get what you put in.

The context implies that there is another side the coin, and that this isn't a scientific destruction of the institution of marriage. It, and I think this is implied, assumes that the other person is also putting in what they hope to get out, and that you're marrying the right person.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#57

Post by nessus42 » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 4:14 PM UTC

aggronn wrote: post #56

nessus42 wrote: post #53

I'm not as impressed by this letter as others seem to be. Reagan's only advice is don't cheat and say "I love you" every day? Who goes into a marriage expecting to cheat? And if you even have the slightest inkling of wanting to cheat at the start, you're almost certainly marrying the wrong person. The letter provides no insight that I didn't already have by the time I was ten. The true challenges of marriage come whe…

I think you glossed over the deeper meaning of the letter, which addresses exactly what you're describing. Its not a how-to on the various problems you may or may not face, written during a time when the only problem with marriage was male infidelity--its a overarching philosophy where he only used one example for illustration. You get what you put in. The context implies that there is another side the coin, and that…

I didn't gloss over any deeper meaning to the letter--it's not there. It's a very focussed and on-point sermon on remaining faithful. He barely even touches on why men sometimes cheat, other than to prove their manhood. But without addressing the real reasons, the message is just a lot of hot air. The real reason that most people cheat is because they don't feel loved, not because they just need another notch on their belt. They feel like they've already given 110% and their efforts are not appreciated, and the other person doesn't love them for their true selves, only for whatever tangible benefits they provide to the other person.

If I got such a letter from my father, I'd think, Pappa don't preach, throw the letter into the trash, and mark it down to yet another way in which my father didn't bother to get to know me or understand me at all.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#58

Post by aggronn » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 4:47 PM UTC

nessus42 wrote: post #57

aggronn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you glossed over the deeper meaning of the letter, which addresses exactly what you're describing. Its not a how-to on the various problems you may or may not face, written during a time when the only problem with marriage was male infidelity--its a overarching philosophy where he only used one example for illustration. You get what you put in. The context implies that there is another side the coin, and that…

I didn't gloss over any deeper meaning to the letter--it's not there. It's a very focussed and on-point sermon on remaining faithful. He barely even touches on why men sometimes cheat, other than to prove their manhood. But without addressing the real reasons, the message is just a lot of hot air. The real reason that most people cheat is because they don't feel loved, not because they just need another notch on thei…

But the article wasn't about cheating. It was clearly an allegory to support what he said he was going to talk about in the opening statement.

You're entitled to your on interpretation of course, but I think its disingenuous to look at a letter with this context and say his great concern, which he took time to write a letter about during the age of telecommunication, reminding his son that cheating isn't part of marriage.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#59

Post by nessus42 » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 5:06 PM UTC

aggronn wrote: post #58

nessus42 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't gloss over any deeper meaning to the letter--it's not there. It's a very focussed and on-point sermon on remaining faithful. He barely even touches on why men sometimes cheat, other than to prove their manhood. But without addressing the real reasons, the message is just a lot of hot air. The real reason that most people cheat is because they don't feel loved, not because they just need another notch on thei…

But the article wasn't about cheating. It was clearly an allegory to support what he said he was going to talk about in the opening statement. You're entitled to your on interpretation of course, but I think its disingenuous to look at a letter with this context and say his great concern, which he took time to write a letter about during the age of telecommunication, reminding his son that cheating isn't part of marr…

> But the article wasn't about cheating. It was clearly an allegory

Oy.

Re: Letter from Ronald Reagan to his son

#60

Post by jhermsmeyer » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 5:17 PM UTC

nessus42 wrote: post #57

aggronn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you glossed over the deeper meaning of the letter, which addresses exactly what you're describing. Its not a how-to on the various problems you may or may not face, written during a time when the only problem with marriage was male infidelity--its a overarching philosophy where he only used one example for illustration. You get what you put in. The context implies that there is another side the coin, and that…

I didn't gloss over any deeper meaning to the letter--it's not there. It's a very focussed and on-point sermon on remaining faithful. He barely even touches on why men sometimes cheat, other than to prove their manhood. But without addressing the real reasons, the message is just a lot of hot air. The real reason that most people cheat is because they don't feel loved, not because they just need another notch on thei…

You kinda did gloss over, well, everything that makes this letter good.

The letter is powerful because of how it said what it wanted to say. The examples and imagery are vivid; the message consistent.

What you wrote: "The real reason that most people cheat is because they don't feel loved" is right there, wonderfully articulated, in this letter.

The hard part of being married, and the hard won wisdom contained in this letter, is the realization that most of the time people fail us because we've failed them first. It's a recursive nightmare and the only escape is to forgive and continue to commit.

Easy to boil down to a tl:dr of "don't cheat" and dismiss. Knowing is not the same as doing (day after day), though.