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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#51

Post by swayvil »

rscho wrote: post #35
whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

Would you say that doctors are overworked?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#53

Post by Zenzero »

whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

Doctor here. I know HN loves to hate on doctors, but your framing is just ridiculous.

The medical world moves at a glacial pace compared to tech. Complaining that ML algos haven't swept the industry ignores all of the factors pushing it in that direction.

"Best medicine" operates on a consensus model of the most prudent decision-making given present knowledge and evidence. That takes time. Pushing boundaries as a doctor outside of a research environment doesn't earn you brownie points. It increases your chances of getting sued.

You also dramatically overestimate the amount of autonomy any given doctor has over the tools they are able to use. The vast majority are employees. It is like if you worked at Google as a SWE, and I came on HN ranting that you don't want to use the most recent release of Sonnet 3.5 to help you write features faster for Gmail, because you're "fiercely protective of your salary." You would laugh at how ignorant the complaint sounds.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#54

Post by rscho »

swayvil wrote: post #51
rscho wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

Would you say that doctors are overworked?

Most docs are overworked for many, mostly bad reasons. Clinical overload is one thing, but healthcare is more like drowning in admin work, these days. So mostly yes, but the true answer is more complex than I can write about in a comment.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#55

Post by MiddleEndian »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #25
nerdjon wrote: post #19

Its cool tech, don't get me wrong. But maybe, before we remove any amount of comfort with another human being we look at wether all of the dental practices are actually backed by science (which there is some scruitiny over). But also going to the dentist already isn't exactly pleasant, the pokes, scrapes, drill noises, etc. Maybe we improve that first before sticking it in a robot? People already have a ton of anxiet…

>But also going to the dentist already isn't exactly pleasant, the pokes, scrapes, drill noises, etc. Maybe we improve that first before sticking it in a robot? Dentists are definitely trying. The drills have gotten smaller and gentler, my dentist (and many others) offers a headset so you can listen to music/podcasts while getting your cleaning, and overall they make an effort to be less scoldy and more encouragey. T…

>the billing sucks

This has not been the case in my experience. Dentists have always told me exactly how much I owe them, and the one time I forgot a payment, they called me and texted me to let me know and I resolved it in a matter of minutes.

Meanwhile a hospital visit sent me a bunch of bills in the mail ranging from $50 to $100, they refused to tell me the total sum even when I visited in person, and when I missed one $50 payment I was sent to collections a year later.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#56

Post by avgDev »

rscho wrote: post #35
whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

So, what is your job?

I will be honest, I've had better luck with google than most doctors. I've had doctors say things which were completely incorrect. I've had doctors prescribe unnecessary and not advised meds for what they diagnosed me with(incorrectly).

I have friends who are pharmacists and they agree with my opinion, and they interact with doctors daily.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#57

Post by avgDev »

apwell23 wrote: post #45

I am more impressed by the guy who signed up to the be the test subject. get him on redbull youtube channel.

I'm 100% positive that if you came up with something "first in the world", but the risk of death was 50% during the procedure, you would find people willing to do it.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#58

Post by rscho »

pegasus wrote: post #41
rscho wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

I suspect you're right, and would be interested to hear more.

In a nutshell, no amount of lobbying will stop equivalent service for 100x cheaper. Tech does not permeate healthcare for 2 reasons: 1. mostly inapplicable. Everyone is focusing on ML model performance, but really information retrieval in healthcare is dismal and prevents the use of such new tech altogether except in very niche cases. 2. no integration in the workplace. Tech people and docs don't understand each other at all, so docs ask for impossible things, and tech people deliver perfectly functional, totally inapplicable tech.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#59

Post by avgDev »

jonhohle wrote: post #15
xaellison wrote: post #8

1. I want a human drilling because I want empathy in my care 2. 90% detection rate on cavities isn't great

Have you switched dentists recently? I have little trust in the profession (though I like my current dentist). Around 2008 every time I went in to the dentist she found cavities. I moved states between a bad diagnosis and getting any fillings and when I went to a new dentist I came out with a clean bill of health. I moved back and had a dentist that I trusted, she sold the practice and the new dentist started finding…

In the end dentist offices are businesses, and often dentists have small practices.

I've recently listened to a podcast of a dentist turning consultant to increase numbers. Dude literally applied a lot of marketing tricks, tested them and analyzed the results. He did things like naming teeth cleaning, a "clinical teeth cleaning" or something along those lines. This resulted in an increase in cleanings. I guess he could be lying as he is now selling his services but the whole podcast felt disgusting.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#60

Post by throw123011 »

rscho wrote: post #35
whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

Being a doc, I can confidently tell you you are totally incorrect as to why things happen the way they do in healthcare. That won't surprise you, I guess. I long tried to make outsiders, and especially tech people, understand what our job is, but discussions always lead to the same stereotypes.

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