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DRM in the cinema

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Re: DRM in the cinema

#51

Post by geon »

anigbrowl wrote: post #11
smacktoward wrote: post #2

This is the part that made me cringe: The [DRM key] arrives as an email zip attachment that then needs to be unzipped, saved onto a memory stick and uploaded onto the server. Seriously? That's how we're delivering time-sensitive digital information? In 2012 ? Ugh, it makes my head spin. Is there some reason that the projector can't be connected to the network directly, so the vendor can push the key straight to it wi…

Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you ask a bunch of hackers how to make a mission-critical application secure, one of the top answers is going to be 'air gap.' In economic terms, security has greater value (to the publishers) than the mild inconvenience of a few shows starting late.

The actual transmission of the key could be done over a custom channel, like a serial connection only used to read the drm key. It would be even more secure than using a usb stick.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#52

Post by xentronium »

__david__ wrote: post #43
wtracy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually happens: Screenings have been interrupted because the internet connection to the projector gets cut. :-/

That makes no sense. The KDM is a self contained public-key encrypted message containing the decryption keys. It requires no internet connection to verify and extract the keys, and it certainly doesn't need to do it during the movie. In fact, most projectors are not even connected directly to the internet.

How do you make sure that system date was not tampered with then?

Re: DRM in the cinema

#53

Post by icebraining »

__david__ wrote: post #44
smacktoward wrote: post #2

This is the part that made me cringe: The [DRM key] arrives as an email zip attachment that then needs to be unzipped, saved onto a memory stick and uploaded onto the server. Seriously? That's how we're delivering time-sensitive digital information? In 2012 ? Ugh, it makes my head spin. Is there some reason that the projector can't be connected to the network directly, so the vendor can push the key straight to it wi…

I think the limiting factor is that (crazily enough) it's hard to get internet to a lot of the places that projectors are located. Internet seems ubiquitous to us in houses/apartments but it's apparently hard to get it when your theater is in the middle of a mall or in some old building. I believe there's a push to start distributing the encrypted films over satellite but that has its own problems because now many th…

That makes no sense: they still have to get the file from email to copy it to an USB stick, and they have to do that just a few minutes before showing time. How could they do that without Internet access on premises?

Re: DRM in the cinema

#54

Post by rmc »

I hate DRM and hope it dies, but I can't support the authors love of physical films. It strikes me as too much like hipster luddistism, and failing to see the disadvantages of physical reels.

Remember this cinema is in Melbourne, Australia. Australians (like the rest of the non-US world) are sick of delays in films being released. Piracy has done a bit to help get rid of the stupid regional delays (Matrix №2 was released at the same time globally). Digital film distribution would do wonders to help the Aussie cinema industry!

Re: DRM in the cinema

#55

Post by megablast »

cdooh wrote: post #46

All that just to ensure a film doesn't get copied and pirated...and yet it still does

Nope, as it says in the article, it is also to track how much the film is being played, to ensure that they are being paid correctly.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#56

Post by speleding »

trimbo wrote: post #13

Ex-VFX guy here again. I feel like I have to comment on these threads because I'm thrilled to see 35mm film die.[1] The DRM sucks but.... > There are instances in the US already where some studios are refusing to freight 35mm film prints to cinemas. Yeah, because it's crazy expensive . It costs ~$1500 to strike and ship a 35mm print[2]. Also, did you know that prints are delivered by some specialized delivery company…

The issues mentioned in the blog sound very fixable. How hard could it be to allow a few minutes of unconstrained grace period from the beginning of the movie? That would take care of ensuring the projector works properly.

It should also be straightforward to offer functionality that verifies if the digital key is valid before the show starts.

I would not be surprised if those options already exist and they simply did not know how to use it.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#57

Post by __david__ »

icebraining wrote: post #53
__david__ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the limiting factor is that (crazily enough) it's hard to get internet to a lot of the places that projectors are located. Internet seems ubiquitous to us in houses/apartments but it's apparently hard to get it when your theater is in the middle of a mall or in some old building. I believe there's a push to start distributing the encrypted films over satellite but that has its own problems because now many th…

That makes no sense: they still have to get the file from email to copy it to an USB stick, and they have to do that just a few minutes before showing time. How could they do that without Internet access on premises?

No, they usually get the KDM well in advance. The time limits that are burned into the KDM are not related to the delivery times of the KDM itself.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#58

Post by Thlom »

spdy wrote: post #4

This is fighting piracy on the wrong level. Some people must be so afraid that someone could copy their "work" that they put a chain on the most trusted place. The KDM unlocks the content of the file and allows the cinema to play the film. It is time sensitive and often is only valid from around 10 minutes prior to the screening time and expiring as close to 5 minutes after the scheduled time. This made me shiver...…

My experience is that the only time a key unlocks the movie only 10 minutes prior to the screening is for previews. Usually the keys are valid for about a week.

BTW, the screen servers will show when a accepted KDM unlocks a feature and for how long it's valid. I have never seen a KDM that is accepted by the screen server and then "doesn't work".

Re: DRM in the cinema

#59

Post by __david__ »

xentronium wrote: post #52
__david__ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. The KDM is a self contained public-key encrypted message containing the decryption keys. It requires no internet connection to verify and extract the keys, and it certainly doesn't need to do it during the movie. In fact, most projectors are not even connected directly to the internet.

How do you make sure that system date was not tampered with then?

I cant remember how that works but I suspect the RTC is in the FIPS can and that it takes effort to set it. They wouldn't go to all that effort to put times in the KDM if someone could just bypass it by setting the system date. It's a pretty well thought out system.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#60

Post by forrestthewoods »

Groxx wrote: post #27
forrestthewoods wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, this seems to be the perfect place to fight piracy. At present time most movies do not have high quality releases until the blu-ray discs are manufactured. When a movie goes to blu-ray 720p and 1080p copies are instantly released online. Having those movies available online opening weekend, if not before opening weekend, could be disastrous.

They already are in quite a few circumstances. It hasn't collapsed the industry yet - there are other reasons to go to a movie theater than to see the movie. As a concrete example, there are tens of thousands of seeders of Prometheus right now at a couple sites I just checked. And quite a few people I know, who know exactly how to use torrents, went to see it in the theater.

Prometheus is leaked only as a camrip. Do you know how terrible camrip quality is? Do a google image search for "Prometheus camrip". Now compare and contrast that to the 1080p trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPW015u8m-g).

Camrips are not a serious threat. Day zero 1080p 5.1 leaks most certainly are.

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