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An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
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Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are thinking about this from a end-user perspective, not a power user. It's the difference between eToro and Active Trader Pro. Or Fidelity's own app and their Active Trader Pro. There's is no right and wrong, they just target different audiences with different priorities. That's why we like btop and htop, but a normal PC user wouldn't understand anything.
This complexity also shows in 3d software. I love all these UIs like 3dmax, SoftImage (!), Blender, Lightwave. Creating 3d has so many aspects to it and it shows in complexity of these UIs. Generally speaking, I much prefer being able to click one of many things shown on the screen than clicking through endless sub-menus, which was always a waste of time for me.
It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps).
On one hand, I still hate the MS Office "ribbon" UI to this day and much prefer the denser and more compact Google Docs or even Open Office layout.
On the other hand, Sketchup was hugely popular and very easy to use compared to its peers when it was released, and quickly became the de facto tool for simple free basic 3d modeling, in no small part because of easy and clean it was, I think. But they got bought out and then abandoned, I think? It doesn't have anywhere near the power of the other software anyway.
IDEs are another example. VScode seems a lot cleaner and leaner than old IDEs, and Jetbrains ended up copying them too (a controversial change, of course).
Photoshop is the one that always gets me. Twenty years of using it and I still can't get used to its layout. It's just so many different weird widget types mashed together in a way you don't see in any other software. I much prefer a docked toolbar like in Figma or Paint Shop Pro. I hate that I use it... I feel like a hostage every time I open it.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#53Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#54This a flashback to the DOS era for me, or CLI utils like 'top'. I can't quite express why, but I find it a bit ugly and vaguely annoying. Probably reminds me too much of unstyled spreadsheets, or maybe I've just been brainwashed by modern trends... Regardless, I guess my primary gripe with it is the cognitive overload. A bunch of numbers (stocks? not sure) and names that all look the same, sometimes with different c…
You are thinking about this from a end-user perspective, not a power user. It's the difference between eToro and Active Trader Pro. Or Fidelity's own app and their Active Trader Pro. There's is no right and wrong, they just target different audiences with different priorities. That's why we like btop and htop, but a normal PC user wouldn't understand anything.
Just a nit, but power users are end users.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#55This obviously does not fit "as much data on a screen as possible". My laptop has a 7.7 megapixel display and each pixel has 1 billion possible states. This page is putting maybe 10000 bits of information on the screen, not even scratching the surface of machine's capacity.
s/as possible/as practical/
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#56I love information density! I collect old newspapers and back then info density was way higher (for an _amazing_ coffee table book, google "nytimes complete front pages"). So much critical info above the fold. I think high information density === high intelligence. Getting sort priorities right is very valuable and important. The past few years the web seemed to be going the other way. Good to see people still rowing…
> I think high information density === high intelligence. Just packing loads of stuff on-screen at once, with tiny fonts and tiny margins and all the rest presents a lot of accessibility issues, even for intelligent people. Google et al are adding padding and white space to make their UIs more accessible for more people. It's not just eye sight we're talking here, but also physical issues with clicking/tapping small…
All my stuff is 100% public domain and open source and can be piped through whatever people need to make the most custom experience.
The default is high information density. This is how they did it in the old days. It makes a lot more sense to default to high information density with 100% public domain open source content in clean code for perfect accessibility.
Anything with a (c) or license has bad accessibility.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#57Having to support mobile throws a big wrench in all design. You suddenly have to worry about a very different viewport and now you’re significantly limited or designing two UIs.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
This complexity also shows in 3d software. I love all these UIs like 3dmax, SoftImage (!), Blender, Lightwave. Creating 3d has so many aspects to it and it shows in complexity of these UIs. Generally speaking, I much prefer being able to click one of many things shown on the screen than clicking through endless sub-menus, which was always a waste of time for me.
It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps). On one hand, I still hate the MS Office "ribbon" UI to this day and much prefer the denser and more compact Google Docs or even Open Office layout. On the other hand, Sketchup was hugely popular and very easy to use compared to its peers when it was released, and quickly became the de facto tool for simple free basic 3d modeling, in no…
> It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps).
Between extremes of GUI presenting all functions at once and accessing all functions through memorized keyboard shortcuts, there must lay large lands of possible, experimental GUIs which unfortunately never get tested in popular software (which defaults to sub-menus + some keyboard access). I mean zoomable UIs, radial menus, 3d concepts in UIs,... - it's hard to see any of research on experimental interfaces make way into actual everyday-use apps.
Every standard GUI element could be thought over. Once I worked with some standard accounting software, where I needed to select some stuff many times during the day from a dropdown. I quickly learnt how to move content from a dropdown menus into a spreadsheet with some formulas which allowed me to paste selection I needed back into these dropdowns 10 times faster. When I was leaving this temp gig I showed this solution to some guy in accounting, whose life was basically opening these dropdowns all day long. Regardless that he was really mean guy, I showed him the trick. He almost had tears in his eyes seeing it. I am not counting muscles strain avoided... Multiply by thousands of users everyday...
Not to mention trying to integrate interoperability of apps within the OS (e.g. to have one program to check for spelling in all apps, across the OS - I cant remember name of one such fine try (ages before)).
As per PS, have you ever tried to really personalize PS UI to your liking? I remember friends getting really opinionated on positioning all those menus perfectly for themselves (and for a reason). Personally I feel like PS is very intuitive for me, whereas in similar apps I cant do simple things, but it's probably because I was kindly shown around.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#59Would an accurate comparison be something like perspective? ( https://perspective.finos.org/ ) Is the focus on density around performance, visualization, or something else?
When I first loaded this, I assumed it was built with Perspective..
It definitely feels very influenced by it.
Re: An experiment in UI density created with Svelte
#60I love information density! I collect old newspapers and back then info density was way higher (for an _amazing_ coffee table book, google "nytimes complete front pages"). So much critical info above the fold. I think high information density === high intelligence. Getting sort priorities right is very valuable and important. The past few years the web seemed to be going the other way. Good to see people still rowing…
> I think high information density === high intelligence. Just packing loads of stuff on-screen at once, with tiny fonts and tiny margins and all the rest presents a lot of accessibility issues, even for intelligent people. Google et al are adding padding and white space to make their UIs more accessible for more people. It's not just eye sight we're talking here, but also physical issues with clicking/tapping small…
> Google et al are adding padding and white space to make their UIs more accessible for more people. It's not just eye sight we're talking here, but also physical issues with clicking/tapping small targets accurately (e.g. someone with Parkinson's), and also neuro divergent issues where a page full of text or whatever can disorient just by sheer amount of stuff happening on-screen at once (e.g. epilepsy)
We’re not in a physical world and FAANG is not bound by money (no, I don’t care about budget allocated to specific teams, I’m sure Android team has Pichai’s credit card), so why are we settling for lowest common denominator instead of creating best UIs for every user type?