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How Mihoyo's monetization works

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Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#51
post #4

Read this and try to explain to me again how going free to play does not corrupt a game's design :)

I have no idea about Mihoyo (never even looked in their direction, save for looking up what it is), but gacha != F2P. Valve, even though their games have lootboxes, they got it [mostly] right by trying their best to make sure there's no "pay to win" (save for accidental cosmetics' bugs, which are half of the time are "pay to lose" and either way are typically fixed promptly) and all game mechanics are equally accessi…

>but gacha != F2P

it varies immensely, and honestly there's no consensus among gacha players what f2p even truly means. It could mean that you can experience all content and eventually pulled some desired characters without paying (e.g. no paywalled characters nor features save cosmetics). It could be more based on a vague metric on how competitive a free player can be in the game (e.g. obviously not going to be top 100 in most games, but maybe top 1000 for a player who plans). It could mean you get a lot of pulls and can grab most of the roster without spending (with whales going for dupes to make money). etc.

People will probably argue about it until the end of time, and I dont particular care to give my take on it. Just wanted to share a few other perspectives.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#52
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea about Mihoyo (never even looked in their direction, save for looking up what it is), but gacha != F2P. Valve, even though their games have lootboxes, they got it [mostly] right by trying their best to make sure there's no "pay to win" (save for accidental cosmetics' bugs, which are half of the time are "pay to lose" and either way are typically fixed promptly) and all game mechanics are equally accessi…

And here they come... the usual defenders of F2P "for cosmetic items only" :) As much as you'd like to prove it's a different animal, the game's design was corrupted in that case as well.

How has Dota 2 been corrupted by cosmetics?

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#53
post #31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to say "F2P bad" or "live service bad", and I'm usually inclined to agree, but in this case, the entire game was carefully designed around the monetization model from the very start of development, to the point that it probably wouldn't work very well without it. I've thought about what a non-live service, $60 one-time purchase version of Genshin Impact would look like, and I've come to the conclusion that…

Yes, every game based on a multiplayer grinding treadmill would be a shitty game if you made it single player. > the large and diverse roster of characters goes a long way in avoiding the feeling of repetitiveness and tedium It's just the same tedium but you change the combos every 10000 repeats? > that plagues most large open world games nowadays Open world games have grown too large for their own good, but that's a…

>It's just the same tedium but you change the combos every 10000 repeats?

if you're going to reduce it to that, we ultimately can go back to the 90's and consider all video games as a useless waste of time that corrupts the mind.

Ultimately, you figure out why games are fun for yourself and focus in on that, be it gameplay, story, charactters, art direction, or simply comfort (I'm sure I can find a few friends who easily threw X000 hours into Stardew Valley). I don't like competitive FPS, but people have made friends, professions, and entertainment just around watching other people play those games. Let alone their own personal experience.

>The worst is when some title is succesful and they get money and they make a sequel that's thrice as big.

that's simply consumer demand, and despite that meme most people are not asking for shorter games with worse graphics made by people who are paid more to work less. Fortunately, games are diverse and you can definitely tailor to your needs unless you must have AAA graphics for your presentation. There are thousands of indies released yearly, but maybe a hundred AAA on a good year spread across a dozen genres.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#54

Wow, that's a lot of jargon. Despite playing Genshin Impact a fair bit (my niece is into it), I didn't understand most of terms in this article. It's odd that they felt like they had to define "enshittification" which is everywhere and not terms like "dolphin" and "i-frames" which I had never heard of before.

yeah, mobile gamers are a whole other audience with very different expectations from the console/PC market. Star Rail is a popular example, but also doesn't really help with the Jargon since it's one of those games that insists on inventing 50 new terms to describe what are probably common features. Simulated Universe => rouge-lite mode, Paths => roles, light cones/relics => gear, etc.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#55

I’m not too familiar with gacha games, so I was intrigued. I thought the criticism of EA’s former CEO was funny. But the rest of the article felt like a lot of term-dropping and examples that aren't linked together into a cohesive theory, so I’m kind of disappointed. I think this industry talk about monetization ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4 ) and Tynan Sylvester’s book “Designing Games” were a lot mo…

>I asked some friends who play gacha games and they mentioned “stamina” mechanics as something that makes these game addictive. I’d never heard of it before, but apparently you’re limited to perform X number of actions per day. You can purchase some additional stamina/actions, but this creates FOMO if you don’t log in every day.

yeah, stamina is a mixed bag. The downside is that it limits how much you play and forces you to play X amount if you don't want to waste it. the "upside" is that it equalizes out most player progress. If you aren't someone who spends a ton of money to buy more stamina (and few gacha bank on this as their revenue. It's 90% about the character releases) you'll probably have similar progression to your other friends, or if someone jumps in 1-2 months later they won't be completely in the dust to players who played day 1.

I think the other final straw is macro abuse. You don't limit stamina and the sweatiest gamers will simply automate the process and go beyond human limits of how much you can play. I think this is why even the few games I know that tried a stamina-less system end up implementing stamina. Similar to using captcha to limit web crawlers from the huge minority of those abusing it.

I should note though that modern gacha don't really "limit" your casual progress that much compared to western games. By the time stamina is a scarcity, you are probably finished with the story content and are simply grinding some form of gear, similar to an MMO. Stamina in modern gacha is there to limit that grind, not wall off playing the story.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#56
post #9

Pretty good read. Particularly the part about avoiding enshittification. I've never really thought about it, but there are in fact a few very valuable lessons that many of the world's biggest tech companies could learn from this chinese gacha company, as ridiculous as it sounds, because their leadership is clearly well above average. Also, next time I see someone asking why they don't release more skins, I'm going to…

What drew me into this game was the art-heavy design. I appreciate how much they invest into assets in and out of the game; for example the original soundtracks, or sponsoring the philharmonic orchestras - they didn't have to do that.

They've moved far from it now, but before they became Hoyoverse their mantra was simply "Tech Otakus save the world!". You see their earliest games (most which never left china) and you definitely get that vibe that this simply started as a few gamers wanting to just make something for themselves. I'm sure the payoff 10 years later was beyond their wildest dreams.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#57
post #9

Pretty good read. Particularly the part about avoiding enshittification. I've never really thought about it, but there are in fact a few very valuable lessons that many of the world's biggest tech companies could learn from this chinese gacha company, as ridiculous as it sounds, because their leadership is clearly well above average. Also, next time I see someone asking why they don't release more skins, I'm going to…

I wonder if they could do it the other way - Fate's gacha has free skins, but if you want to unlock and use them you then need to roll the character. This seems to turn around the audience problem, where the skin becomes bait for a characters 3rd or 4th rerun banner, etc.

It could possibly work, but generally the default skin and character itself is appealing enough. They don't really need another reason on top of that to pull. Also, Fate can simply make a bunch of alts with new kits for that 1st banner revenue.

To explain to non-mobile players: "alts" are basically copies of usually poopular characters, but packaged as a new character. New lines, new skills, maybe a different element/role as a whole. It may or may not be used as a way to reuse assets depending on the quality of the game.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#59
post #4

Read this and try to explain to me again how going free to play does not corrupt a game's design :)

You'd be completely correct, the last 20 years of MMORPGs (which Genshin takes heavily from) have shown that alternative business models are always going to lead to perverse incentives in gameplay.

The success of gacha games is not in overcoming those steps, rather in capturing a new market that doesn't care about such perverse mechanics. They're not playing for the same reason you are playing games, persistency is the key here as a virtual "job" they play after their real job.

Re: How Mihoyo's monetization works

#60

The funny thing about Mihoyo's games is that they are one of the most profitable developers, but they could definitely pull more levers to incentivise people to spend even more money. Most gacha games have some sort of pay-to-win PvP and/or leaderboards built in their games, but in Mihoyo's games, having a top-tier team just means you have to oppertunity to get slightly more premium currency.

Waifu monetization model, more profitable to milk a lot of horny folks a little for a long time. I still can't get over Mihoyo built a tokamak reactor IRL.

Not just monetization, these types of games also pivot towards building parasocial relationships with in-game characters to you. This leads to people building zero tolerance for what can be perceived as other characters interacting to them - an issue that affected Girls Frontline 2.

International Genshin players, however, do seem to embrace "shipping" (pairing two in-universe characters in relationships) instead, but these also have their own internal controversies - look up "shipping wars".

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