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Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

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Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#51
Major bias disclaimer:

1. I work for Figma

2. I work on AI at Figma, as well as on the design systems part of the product

3. Prior to Figma, I spent 7 years as a prototyper teaching designers how to go from idea->code without a design step in between

I love designing in code, and I HIGHLY recommend you do so for smaller projects, but I disagree with some of the assumptions the author is making. The author states, "The reason Figma has over 4 million users is because it takes most people too long to code their designs", which I feel is inaccurate. For less-experienced creators, it's mainly because the UX is more approachable in a design tool. That's less relevant here since the author is talking about designers who can code. For the most experienced designers, it's more about alignment.

As an example, most of my side project[1] was designed entirely in code... until it got to a certain scale. Designing in code was amazing early on when every page could be a new pattern. After a while, managing variations of components and ensuring that I wasn't diverging from existing patterns became non-trivial. Things became even harder when I hired another person to work on things. At that point, alignment became crucial. We needed to ensure that designs we were both working on were aligned with each other. Patterns one created needed to be reused, not reinvented by the other. This is something that's very hard to do in code. I ended up creating a mirror of the existing implementation of the site in Figma from scratch. For the iOS app, I ended up starting it in Figma[2] so we could easily compare implementations and land on an agreed pattern. Alignment with patterns and with the team was the #1 reason why we operated in a design tool during this time.

[1] https://non.io

[2] https://www.figma.com/design/im8a7L7axmbj0S0lm27NKa/Nonio-iO...

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#52
post #5

I feel seen! I'm one of these codey designers. The madness that exists in modern design teams (I used to manage a team of 50!) is insane. There's a lot of time spent on "design systems" in Figma. Very generally Figma is not the website, and the effeciency additions of building tools there is a lost cause. Modern CSS and your JS frontend of choice is a lot quicker and more powerful for component building and general d…

> Modern CSS and your JS frontend of choice is a lot quicker and more powerful for component building and general design work.

I'm a former designer turned programmer, and I couldn't agree more. I was recently tasked with doing some mockup images (no official designer on the team), and at the end, I realized that I could do it so much faster with code.

Ironically, while I was putting the images together (I used Affinity Photo), I remember thinking to myself "Does this thing have some sort of scripting language?".

I still think a sketchpad and a pen is the best way to generate ideas. But, when it comes to mockups, good old HTML and CSS really can't be beat.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#53

Figma is a tool and nothing more, despite some people to turn it into the end all be all of user experience. It will eventually be replaced with something, just as it replaced Sketch, and just like Sketch replaced Illustrator. I also noticed that the author barely touches on the people who make the interfaces (product designers). If the author gets their wish, businesses won't hesitate to axe their UX teams to save s…

Getting designers willing to setup their workstation to hand code a React app with dozens of dependencies and be constrained by the DOM is not going to go very well. And then doing it all over again with several other web libraries/languages. This is not even design, it's a developer role who just happens to paint UI with code.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#54
> But you know what AI will be great at? > ...Turning wireframes into frontend code (limited logic) > ...Wielding (and extrapolating) your design system > ...Creating beautiful visuals from screenshots and mood boards

I don't think the argument works. It imagines AI will be able to do things that our current AI do not.

Our current AI work in terms of what they've been trained on. Natural language to code works as well as it does because coders have been asking and answering questions about code a lot on the internet, that's been collected into data sets, and those data sets have been used to train LLMs.

For AIs that work like our current ones to be great at the things the author envisions, they will need a lot of examples of those things, and of a high quality too.

The author wants AI to turn natural language into wire frames, let the designer adjust and improve the wireframe, and then turn the improved wireframe into production code.

But I don't think the training data for those two transformations exist. What even is the intermediate wireframe format? AU will produce and consume it, but it also needs to be in a form human designers can iterate on.

Since the training data doesn't exist, it would need to be created. Is that feasible? If you can't harvest the internet for it for almost nothing, it would cost a great deal to create, and I wonder about the quality of the result.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#55
I think the assumption here is that once you make a component library in code, you can just map low-fidelity wireframe components (from something like Balsamiq) onto those "real" components, and go from a napkin sketch to a functioning website without the awkward middle ground of vector designs and clickable slideshow prototypes.

It's an interesting idea. I'm skeptical that, in the real world, you can reliably infer everything you need to produce code from a simple wireframe: how do you deal with specific interactions, specific data, specific operations on that data? Balsamiq-style mockups are all about not getting specific, in order to keep the fidelity low and the velocity high.

In practice, with Figma, the thing I've noticed is that I use low-fidelity wireframes less than in the past, because it's just as easy and fast to use high-fidelity components from my design library. If I'm just stacking Lego blocks together to make a UI, why would I use low-fidelity blocks, if I already have high-fidelity blocks that are much less ambiguous?

In other words, I'm not sure Figma is in the middle ground between sketches and code anymore, I think it's just as easy to think of it as a brainstorming tool that happens to produce high-fidelity results if you use it right.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#56
post #54

> But you know what AI will be great at? > ...Turning wireframes into frontend code (limited logic) > ...Wielding (and extrapolating) your design system > ...Creating beautiful visuals from screenshots and mood boards I don't think the argument works. It imagines AI will be able to do things that our current AI do not. Our current AI work in terms of what they've been trained on. Natural language to code works as wel…

Frankly, I am not even sure what "frontend code" means in this context. What stack? How is state managed? How is this code integrated into the larger production system? If by "frontend code" they mean fairly clean React code - that's just a small subset of what is actually needed for production.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#57

This will come off as a humble brag, but I will say it anyway. Right now, I am tasked with building a PoC for a new product my team wants to build by the end of the quarter. We have one big problem - we have no designer on staff. But we do have a design system with a library with re-usable react components and tailwind css, and those are things I am pretty good with. So I have full autonomy when it comes to turning p…

This has always been the case. Zero to one with a single developer or a very small team is the most exciting part of the lifecycle of a project. Medium to large size companies have very different challenges.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#58
post #25

Slightly off-topic, but I dislike this trend of "designers over-designing everything". This website is aesthetically pleasing, and has it's own unique style, but scrolling the home-page is laggy on my $4,000 Macbook (Chrome). I guess it's because it downloads 14MB of resources and tries to download more based on scroll position?

Same for me on FF Android. Unbeliveable sluggish scrolling. Couldn't read the article.

Strange… my iPhone renders it instantly with 0 issues.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#59
post #5

I feel seen! I'm one of these codey designers. The madness that exists in modern design teams (I used to manage a team of 50!) is insane. There's a lot of time spent on "design systems" in Figma. Very generally Figma is not the website, and the effeciency additions of building tools there is a lost cause. Modern CSS and your JS frontend of choice is a lot quicker and more powerful for component building and general d…

Hard disagree here. Are you writing production code, or are you building mockups/prototypes?

I don't want non software engineers touching production code. It's too hard, and the depth of skillset for a product/UX designer is already huge.

If you find css and js faster for prototyping and mockups, then sure. I'm doubtful and still yet to see that work in the wild.

Re: Will Figma become an awkward middle ground?

#60

I'm a designer. I built brainglue.ai without Figma, a design system, or a UI library. I just went directly to code (react+tailwind) and let a style organically emerge. I'm not saying that I'm a unicorn and that my idea-to-code-to-design execution is flawless, but I certainly believe that in this situation, if I hadn't done it this way, I wouldn't have done it all. However, doing this would be wasteful or dumb in almo…

Nice design!

Small suggestion, I would preload the contents of each tab and the images in the circle after the main content is loaded. There was a good two second lag loading the images here in Australia.

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