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Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

nature.com

51–60 of 276 posts

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#51

This concerns Functional Connectivity[0], which is basically a measure of how temporally correlated regions are; those that fire in sync or in a strongly correlated pattern are functionally connected. Essentially, the TL;DR of this study is that psilocybin's 5-HT2A agonism seems to reduce synchronized FC activity not just in neurons but the whole brain: psilocybin makes parts of the brain overall that otherwise work…

I think the fact that nobody knows how to deal with negative correlations in functional connectivity takes away from the validity of the whole concept. People literally throw out negatively correlated voxels/ROI's. This, on top of the fact that functional connectivity is only related to physical connectivity in the abstract. (it's about the correlated time series activity in pixels over time, and isn't bound by any cellular connectivity). I just struggle to discern any meaning from the concept.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#52
While it's amusing in the short term, the long term side effects for me were awful. I felt like my brain was slow and unfocused, I was no longer quick in conversation or able to concentrate as well as usual, I felt disconnected from myself, sort of like when you recall a memory so old that it seems like it belongs to someone else, I had a headache for almost 3 weeks.

Throwing this in here as there are a fair few "dude just take drugs" comments and worry they might be the religious types.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#53
post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

> You can start feeling like you KNOW big sweeping Truths.

Yep. During a pretty bad episode of delusional schizophrenia (for lack of any better diagnosis) I had that, many years ago.

I felt like I was either on the verge of a huge epiphany or I'd just had one, for a few weeks. Every time it was nonsense or couldn't be explained.

Luckily I have not relapsed and I have been off the antipsychotics for a few years

The only permanent damage is that every medical professional says I should never do psychoactive drugs. Which sucks cause they sound fun and I wonder if they'd help me get over some other problems I have. Maybe after I've retired.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#54
post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

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Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can also induce a psychological break and/or acute schizophrenia and/or lasting distortions of perception, so maybe cool it with the unwarranted medical advice

We are going to need to know the rate of this happening. And who said it happens?

I've seen it happen to multiple people..

You may need a "study" to believe it, but I no longer do..

I enjoy psychedelics, but I am also aware of the potential risks because I've seen them. I don't pretend that incidents don't happen just because they are rare, and because I enjoy them.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#56
post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

Feeling "it is just a feeling" is also just a feeling.

Absolutely not.

Feeling "it is just a feeling" is being grounded in reality and affirming your senses and convictions are volatile and shouldn't be trusted.

Feeling "I solved the world, everybody listen to me" is... not.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#57
post #12

While the analogies are often useful, everyone reading HN comments should be very aware and very skeptical of just how often computer/tech people rely on computer/tech analogies to understand things that are fundamentally not computers/tech. It is very very easy for smart people with functionally specific jobs/hobbies/ways of thinking to see all reality through that narrow window. It often leads to important details…

Feeling "it is just a feeling" is also just a feeling.

Not really, have you ever tried to articulate one of your "big epiphanies" while on hallucinogens? In my experience (and experience of people I'm with) it inevitably comes out as babble. Maybe that's just because the insight is too profound to capture with language but somehow I doubt it

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 1% of people have schizophrenia. This holds over a lifetime - there's a structural, unavoidable component to the person's neural wiring or physiology that will result in a schizophrenic break. Prior to the break, they may seem more or less normal, but after, they will experience deficits in cognition and perception, and may have significant barriers to living a normal life. Schizophrenics, as a rule, will have…

As I said in another post, the mental illness is not the issue here, the immediate access to a gun while blasted on shrooms is.

I would extend this and suggest that anyone using these should have someone or multiple people who can be sure that all dangerous things are out of reach, including cars.

I've witnessed heavily drunk people abuse microwaves, and people deep in chat addiction catch a kitchen on fire boiling water.

I've heard many people believe they can fly and other stories, but it's not just hallucinogens that convince people the really dangerous thing they are about to do it totally fine.. but I would suggest that with the use of such removing all possible danger things and having shifts of responsible people in the vicinity maybe should be required.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said in another post, the mental illness is not the issue here, the immediate access to a gun while blasted on shrooms is.

At least 42% of Americans live in a household with a gun so it isn't particularly useful to write off the anecdote.

This percentage is much smaller in other countries, so actually it is... if you don't live in the USA, which is a large majority of the world's population.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#60

[flagged]

Certainly they can disintegrate negative connections. Be warned however, they can also do the same with the positive ones. The chemicals used don’t care about the outcome of their use.

I was acquaintanced with a guy who had safely taken significant amounts of shrooms for years (he asserts more therapeutic reasons than recreational), having slowly tested up to ~5grams, so was seemingly in the clear are far as uncovering schizophrenia and the like. Then he took a bit more one day, he estimates about 7grams, and basically his connection with his sense of body and presence in the world became severed. Described it like being dead, but trapped in a body, unable to feel joy or relationships. This persisted for 3 years despite many attempts to resolve it. In the end he committed suicide.

While things like microdosing are definitely intriguing, my own exploration on the topic and reading many accounts has left me with the strong impression that for psilocybin, any dosage above 3grams (of dry Psilocybe cubensis) poses an unacceptable risk of negative outcomes.

As such, I strongly caution against naive exploration, and stay the hell away from higher doses. Especially since those seeking psychedelics as a treatment are much more likely to have multiple issues that increase the likelihood of severely negative outcomes. Users should also be aware that under elevated doses, self harm or harm to others becomes possible. Assaults, murders, and suicides under the influence are a reality that cannot morally just be ignored.

Which brings up another point; in general the psychedelic communities online that I’ve observed do not generally appreciate the mention of bad outcomes, to the point where they actively censor things as anti-psychedelic conspiracy. That coupled with problems in getting accurate medical data make it hard to tell the actual rate of severely negative outcomes. Those who take psychedelics have a vested interest in seeing only the good outcomes.

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