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Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

english.hani.co.kr

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Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#51

Post by kybernetikos »

Blackthorn wrote: post #44
kybernetikos wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it'll work this time though though, since we are beginning to make big strides in automating violence too. The people who own the boxes will own the murderbots too.

They always owned the police anyway.

True but police are people too with their own expectations and morality and the number of police required to suppress a population is relatively large.

There's still enormous room for abuse, but automating suppression drops even the imperfect checks that we have on the power of the few to oppress the many

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#52

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Tade0 wrote: post #27
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

The many will quite simply stop having children, because why bother? Then the mgic box owners will attempt doing something to have a population to sell to, but that will ultimately fail. It can be argued that it already started - globally the number of children born peaked around 2013-2017. The pandemic only accelerated the process.

There was a short in the second batch of Love, Death and Robots[0] (Netflix), that had a cop, whose job it was, to kill children of "poors," as the rich could live practically forever, and didn't want the competition.

[0] https://www.netflix.com/title/80174608 (Volume 2: "Pop Squad").

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#53

Post by immibis »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

Pretty much this. We see it starting to happen already. When's the last time a really big company actually did something to improve its product for its users and thereby get more money from users, as opposed to either raising the price, or improving its product for people who are not the users at the detriment of the users? They do this because the users aren't where the money is - money is concentrated among rich people, and the best way to make more money is to pander to other rich people.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#54

Post by immibis »

Aperocky wrote: post #21
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

I think this is purely focused on the supply side and neglecting demand and its role in the economy. The world economy today isn't driven by lack of supply (for the vast majority categories of products), rather it is by lack of demand. Whoever owns the demand owns the power in this dynamic. One can have all the factories in the world when consumer stop buying it's in for a rough time, like China is finding out.

Demand can be easily manufactured, it seems. Just look at all the bullshit people buy, from fidget spinners to timeshares to ready-made chocolate cake.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#55

Post by Alupis »

wormlord wrote: post #36

Samsung is the only job interview I have walked out of. I was told "you'll basically have zero wlb for the first 2-3 years while we are getting this fab off the ground". I immediately said I was withdrawing my candidacy. I can't imagine what the floor workers jobs are like if that's how demanding the SWE side is. It's especially soul-crushing when you think what the next Xnm process translates to in the real-world. I…

> "you'll basically have zero wlb for the first 2-3 years while we are getting this fab off the ground"

This doesn't sound like you were interviewing for a typical job with Samsung then. Getting a fab off the ground seems to imply it's a newly constructed, or under construction fab. You were interviewing to be part of the crew that builds and sets up a new fab.

There's a reason salaries for this type of work as so large...

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#56

Post by hammock »

theamk wrote: post #41
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

Have you seen "good vs services employment" graphs, like this one? [0] Number of people producing goods has been shrinking for a longest time, its under 20% now. It'll likely keep shrinking as automation becomes more advanced, and in the future "service" would be much more important. When I was a kid, I've read some sci-fi stories about societies like those, where most people were working in service industry. [0] htt…

That graph is US only

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#57

Post by ryandrake »

immibis wrote: post #54
Aperocky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is purely focused on the supply side and neglecting demand and its role in the economy. The world economy today isn't driven by lack of supply (for the vast majority categories of products), rather it is by lack of demand. Whoever owns the demand owns the power in this dynamic. One can have all the factories in the world when consumer stop buying it's in for a rough time, like China is finding out.

Demand can be easily manufactured, it seems. Just look at all the bullshit people buy, from fidget spinners to timeshares to ready-made chocolate cake.

We have entire industries dedicated to creating demand for things that would otherwise not be demanded (advertising), and enabling people to buy things they cannot afford (debt). I'd expect both of these industries to balloon during the late stages as people get further squeezed out of voluntarily participating in the economy.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#59

Post by immibis »

jajko wrote: post #14
mahmoudhossam wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a technology company and a major one too, I'd say it's well in scope for HN.

It also concerns humans, of which we are all part of. Some have more empathy to suffering of fellow humans than others, that has always been the case. For most part, HN leans into more humanitarian part of the scale. OP will find it hard to find sympathy here, or almost anywhere else apart from most primitive and easily manipulated corners of human society for that matter.

Most human-related topics are not allowed to be discussed on HN. It needs to have a technology or investment angle to be allowed.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#60

Post by ryandrake »

kybernetikos wrote: post #51
Blackthorn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They always owned the police anyway.

True but police are people too with their own expectations and morality and the number of police required to suppress a population is relatively large. There's still enormous room for abuse, but automating suppression drops even the imperfect checks that we have on the power of the few to oppress the many

> True but police are people too

That can be solved, too. Some other (now deleted?) comment mentioned the inevitability of killbots, which will have to be created and deployed for this dystopia to stick. The elite living in Elysium will need a controllable, automate-able, way to keep the underclass in line, one that doesn't involve less-reliable human enforcers.

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