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Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

mstdn.social

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Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#51

Post by haileys »

JW_00000 wrote: post #46
michaelt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere Sure they are - just install ublock origin. Even if you're OK with the snooping and the attention hijacking and the slow pageloads and the pictures of rotting teeth, plenty of malware has been delivered by inept ad networks. Frankly, I find it strange when someone doesn't block ads.

To play the devil's advocate: if everyone did that, there would be almost no more free websites. So much of the internet is paid for through ads.

> So much of the internet is paid for through ads.

And look where it's gotten us.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#52

Post by tjoff »

doe_eyes wrote: post #30

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

Only IF it is correctly implemented. And only if you trust all relevant parties involved in this feature.

And honestly, whenever I see that something has been anonymized I assume it isn't. Mostly because the industry has a terrible track record, secondly because the incentives are almost always misaligned to begin with.

I'd trust mozilla more than most, but not enough to give them free rein and opt in things for me. I don't (yet) know enough specifics on this matter to make an informed decision, but if it weren't for hn I'd have missed this.

I doubt firefox would ask the user after install (again, incentives).

I should go through all options for every update (not just for firefox). But I can't, I don't have enough time. I need to be able to put some trust into the software I use, and things like this erode that trust.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#53

Post by account42 »

JW_00000 wrote: post #46
michaelt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere Sure they are - just install ublock origin. Even if you're OK with the snooping and the attention hijacking and the slow pageloads and the pictures of rotting teeth, plenty of malware has been delivered by inept ad networks. Frankly, I find it strange when someone doesn't block ads.

To play the devil's advocate: if everyone did that, there would be almost no more free websites. So much of the internet is paid for through ads.

> if everyone did that, there would be almost no more free websites

Wrong.

Let's ignore for the moment that ad-funded websites are not free but only pretend to be free (the average user pays eventually, otherwise ads would not make sense for the advertiser), non-commercial websites have existed longer than ad-funded ones. If anything, making "free" profitable invites profiteers that produce mediocre content but know how to out-SEO genuine free websites.

> So much of the internet is paid for through ads.

And the best thing for the Internet is if that part came crashing down. But even for the ad-supported part of the web, almost all of the actual content is generated by unpaid users.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#54

Post by rpastuszak »

doe_eyes wrote: post #30

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

> The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers.

90% of Mozilla’s revenue, ca. $500,000,000 comes advertising partnerships (almost exclusively Google)

https://untested.sonnet.io/Defaults+Matter%2C+Don't+Assume+C...

My point is: it’s not just lifting a finger for advertisers. It’s deception. Defaults matter.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#55

Post by zihotki »

doe_eyes wrote: post #30

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

> it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers

It's that an ads vendor is lifting a finger for ads. Mozilla is an ads vendor now - https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/mozilla-anonym-raising-t...

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#56

Post by account42 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #44
michaelt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere Sure they are - just install ublock origin. Even if you're OK with the snooping and the attention hijacking and the slow pageloads and the pictures of rotting teeth, plenty of malware has been delivered by inept ad networks. Frankly, I find it strange when someone doesn't block ads.

ublock is a tiny fraction of users. If it became ubiquitous, online advertising would respond with something more embedded in the content and harder to block out.

> online advertising would respond with something more embedded in the content and harder to block out

And less profitable, otherwise they would already be doing that now. In other words: a step in the right direction.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#57

Post by hamilyon2 »

prime17569 wrote: post #11

FYI Safari has been doing this (also enabled by default) for years on all Apple platforms. To disable it on macOS: Safari > Preferences/Settings > Advanced > Uncheck "Allow privacy-preserving measurement of ad effectiveness" To disable it on iOS: Settings > Safari > Advanced (scroll all the way down) > Turn off "Privacy Preserving Ad Measurement"

In French it is deceptively named too. The explanation on official website is no better.

I always knew that safari is no better than other browsers, but the overt deception is a new low.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#58

Post by account42 »

lopis wrote: post #14
ollybee wrote: post #3

There's some good context in the Mozilla kb article on this feature: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr...

I actually think this is a great initiative. Let's be honest, ads and ad tracking is not going anywhere, and Mozilla is trying to come up with a version of that which isn't terrible. And this sounds reasonable.

Well since theft is also not going anywhere would you be OK with the police helping thieves as long as they make sure the thieves don't damage your house while taking your stuff?

Why do you think the advertising industry is pushing for this kind of crap? Because they ARE scared that the world is finally waking up to them and making their business effectively illegal.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#59

Post by TekMol »

More infos about it:

    https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/privacy-preserving-attribution-for-advertising/
    https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/tree/main/ppa-experiment
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppm-dap/
The gist of it is that Mozilla and ISRG now proxy the tracking data and give aggregated reports to advertisers. And that they handle the data in a way so that neither Mozilla nor ISRG alone can access the unaggregated data:

    Our DAP deployment is jointly run by
    Mozilla and ISRG. Privacy is lost if
    the two organizations collude
I wonder if this is really the only way privacy can get lost. What if an advertiser uses an ad ID only once for real (specifying a specific user) and then sends 999 fake impression signals for that ID to Mozilla? When they get the aggregated data for the 1000 impressions, they would be able to deduct who did the one real impression, no?

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#60

Post by tgvaughan »

doe_eyes wrote: post #30

The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. The approach allows measurement without disclosing who, specifically, did what with the ad. The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I guess the fundamental question there is if we prefer to outright shut down online advertising, or give it the tools it needs to be less bad. Op…

My problem with this is that ideally, software I deign to run on my computer acts with only my interests in mind. The overarching goal of these changes is not to preserve my privacy, but rather to help advertising companies to learn something about how I interact with their ads. I don't care that Mozilla's particular implementation is not as bad for my privacy as it could be, I only care that their motivation has switched from acting in my interests to acting in the interests of advertising agencies.
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