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Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

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Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#51

Post by seangrogg »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #43
sqeaky wrote: post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

The point of platform isn't just that someone else hosts it. It's that it's a consistent target for your teams & different projects, with a well defined set of capabilities. Having patterns to deploy & ship software, that also can bring up & manage other resources along the way (databases, load balancers, geo-reicatikn, etc etc).

While I think this is a valid take for the term "platform" I do think that "Platform as a Service" implies that someone else is running the platform and I don't have to deal with the headache of managing it, I just use it.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#53

Post by tln »

thinkxl wrote: post #22
joshmanders wrote: post #9

What's with the vilification of kubernetes? 99% of this document ( https://tau.how/99-Misc/kubernetes/01-k8s-cons/ ) boils down to "You have to understand what a pod, deployment, container, etc is" once you remove every line that discusses the cons of managing a cluster yourself, because nobody actually does that except extremely large orgs. All of these problems go away when you utilize a managed offering like DOKS,…

> What's with the vilification of kubernetes? because a well-configured k8s cluster nullifies the need for this project. also hi!

There's a fair amount of friction to going from 0 to a well-configured k8s cluster with gitops and a local dev story....

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#54

Post by phendrenad2 »

seangrogg wrote: post #51
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of platform isn't just that someone else hosts it. It's that it's a consistent target for your teams & different projects, with a well defined set of capabilities. Having patterns to deploy & ship software, that also can bring up & manage other resources along the way (databases, load balancers, geo-reicatikn, etc etc).

While I think this is a valid take for the term "platform" I do think that "Platform as a Service" implies that someone else is running the platform and I don't have to deal with the headache of managing it, I just use it.

Yes, from the developer's perspective, someone else is running the platform (the platform team). (At least, as long as the developers can avoid assuming ownership of the platform by managing terraform files or something, which in practice I've yet to see anyone avoid...)

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#55

Post by philippemnoel »

joshmanders wrote: post #9

What's with the vilification of kubernetes? 99% of this document ( https://tau.how/99-Misc/kubernetes/01-k8s-cons/ ) boils down to "You have to understand what a pod, deployment, container, etc is" once you remove every line that discusses the cons of managing a cluster yourself, because nobody actually does that except extremely large orgs. All of these problems go away when you utilize a managed offering like DOKS,…

"What's with the vilification of kubernetes?" I ask myself that question every day

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#57

Post by mlaretallack »

seangrogg wrote: post #51
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of platform isn't just that someone else hosts it. It's that it's a consistent target for your teams & different projects, with a well defined set of capabilities. Having patterns to deploy & ship software, that also can bring up & manage other resources along the way (databases, load balancers, geo-reicatikn, etc etc).

While I think this is a valid take for the term "platform" I do think that "Platform as a Service" implies that someone else is running the platform and I don't have to deal with the headache of managing it, I just use it.

In a company, there may me multiple teams, each doing there own projects, PaaS can be within the same company and provide a common way to do stuff without each team having to start from scratch each time.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#58

Post by makestuff »

Kinrany wrote: post #30
sqeaky wrote: post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

"Self-hostable as a service" is a common pattern because it provides the benefits of as-a-service without the threat of vendor lock-in. Plus you can run the same software in temporary or test environments.

It will be interesting to see how these companies evolve their business strategy once PE/VCs are pressuring them to IPO/get bought out. It seems like any customer that is large enough to have significant billing would just bring the platform in house instead of paying for the hosted version. I guess they could take the docker desktop approach with their licensing that >X million in revenue still requires a license of some sort.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#59

Post by revskill »

sqeaky wrote: post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

Yes, so that one doesn't need to learn those helly AWS config.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#60

Post by jpgvm »

tln wrote: post #53
thinkxl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's with the vilification of kubernetes? because a well-configured k8s cluster nullifies the need for this project. also hi!

There's a fair amount of friction to going from 0 to a well-configured k8s cluster with gitops and a local dev story....

Gitops and a local dev story are more about your application than your deployment environment. Especially because along the way you need to consider building, testing, CI, etc.

It's really hard to fault k8s these days, all the original problems are solved and all that remains is necessary complexity that can't be abstracted without lowering power.

That doesn't mean you can't abstract over it, you can and should but you should do so in the scope of your team or organisation where you already know which pieces of power you need/want or otherwise know the way you which you want to leak those capabilities.

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