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Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

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Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#51

Post by wkat4242 »

constantcrying wrote: post #12

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…

I would not pick the US either. High crime, high healthcare cost, low social security. People carrying guns everywhere. No way. Of course I know there are huge regional differences but I don't know of any city (it would have to be a city for me) that I'd be comfortable with.

In fact I've declined to visit even when I've had the opportunity to do a business trip though there wasn't much pressure on it. I could just go or leave it, no strings attached and I was happy to leave it. I'm very socialist, atheist and progressive, it just isn't my kinda place.

In fact I often get recruiters pushing me relocation offers though I clearly state in my profile that I only want to work in my city or 100% remote. Even if it's an amazing career opportunity I don't care. I get one a week or so that still tries, comes with working in AI for a major enterprise I guess. They're all scrambling for people now.

I wouldn't want to be in that kind of role anyway where the goal is to "Do something with AI QUICK that makes investors happy, we don't care what it is!!!". I don't play that game.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#52

Post by rPlayer6554 »

j7ake wrote: post #46
dexwiz wrote: post #44

Question for European workers: Do you feel that social services help close some of that gap in pay? Raising a kid in the USA has become massively expensive. Health care costs, education costs, child care costs means parents can easily spent 50-100k a year on children alone. My partner wants to move to the Netherlands, but it would mean a massive pay cut for me long term. Their argument is that children will be cheape…

If you want more than 2 kids it’s rarely feasible in USA, but not an issue for Europe. No kids, USA hands down. One kid, comparable. Two kids, Europe looks better but USA is still possible. Three kids, you need free childcare somewhere to make it work. Remember that it is 50 to 100k in after expenses, so at highest tax bracket you need to make almost double that to pay for childcare. Finally, work culture in Europe i…

May I ask what you're basing this on? Obviously cost of living in the US varies a lot per region.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#53

Post by lupire »

j7ake wrote: post #46
dexwiz wrote: post #44

Question for European workers: Do you feel that social services help close some of that gap in pay? Raising a kid in the USA has become massively expensive. Health care costs, education costs, child care costs means parents can easily spent 50-100k a year on children alone. My partner wants to move to the Netherlands, but it would mean a massive pay cut for me long term. Their argument is that children will be cheape…

If you want more than 2 kids it’s rarely feasible in USA, but not an issue for Europe. No kids, USA hands down. One kid, comparable. Two kids, Europe looks better but USA is still possible. Three kids, you need free childcare somewhere to make it work. Remember that it is 50 to 100k in after expenses, so at highest tax bracket you need to make almost double that to pay for childcare. Finally, work culture in Europe i…

Home is somewhere to get childcare.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#54

Post by wkat4242 »

fennecbutt wrote: post #31
constantcrying wrote: post #12

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…

As a gay dev I would never move to somewhere like Dubai. Fuck that.

You're right. Why move to a country that thinks you're an abomination? Even though I'm sure you're pretty much immune to persecution as a high-skill expat, even having to hide who you really are too keep the peace just isn't worth it.

I'm not really gay but hetflex/polyamorous and a bit queer and I would not be comfortable being myself there either. Even in the bad areas in Holland I get slurs thrown at me.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#55

Post by wkat4242 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #48
constantcrying wrote: post #12

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…

Tax free income. Live there for 7 years. Retire.

When you bring that tax free income home it's no longer tax free of course...

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#56

Post by wkat4242 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #49

The number one thing about the US is the sheer hope and belief in the future. Europe, maybe apart from France, surprisingly, is depressing and nobody thinks the future is bright.

I think the future is pretty bright here in Spain. More importantly, I think things are really fine as they are. We just have to keep the climate deteriorating in check because being in a hot country we're really starting to feel that here.

But overall yeah things are fine. Not seeing great pies in the sky for our future but no big sinkholes either.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#57

Post by wkat4242 »

Clubber wrote: post #33
OKRainbowKid wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Germany the state guarantees you housing. Yet it has a far bigger homelessness problem than the US. Citation needed.

Per capita, Germany has about 60% (31.4/10K vs 19.5/10K) higher homeless rate. I was surprised myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...

The Germans are really really good at documenting things. In the US documenting things stuff is often in the hands of people who look good if the numbers are low so... Also, nobody there cares about the homeless. In Germany they all still have social security so they need to be registered.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#58

Post by hamster77 »

j7ake wrote: post #46
dexwiz wrote: post #44

Question for European workers: Do you feel that social services help close some of that gap in pay? Raising a kid in the USA has become massively expensive. Health care costs, education costs, child care costs means parents can easily spent 50-100k a year on children alone. My partner wants to move to the Netherlands, but it would mean a massive pay cut for me long term. Their argument is that children will be cheape…

If you want more than 2 kids it’s rarely feasible in USA, but not an issue for Europe. No kids, USA hands down. One kid, comparable. Two kids, Europe looks better but USA is still possible. Three kids, you need free childcare somewhere to make it work. Remember that it is 50 to 100k in after expenses, so at highest tax bracket you need to make almost double that to pay for childcare. Finally, work culture in Europe i…

Yet the US has higher birth rates

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#59

Post by xyzzy123 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #55
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax free income. Live there for 7 years. Retire.

When you bring that tax free income home it's no longer tax free of course...

As I understand it, it's mainly US citizens who are subject to citizenship rather than residence based taxation.

So I think you can take money earned while living overseas back to most European countries without paying additional income tax.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#60

Post by Clubber »

wkat4242 wrote: post #57
Clubber wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per capita, Germany has about 60% (31.4/10K vs 19.5/10K) higher homeless rate. I was surprised myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...

The Germans are really really good at documenting things. In the US documenting things stuff is often in the hands of people who look good if the numbers are low so... Also, nobody there cares about the homeless. In Germany they all still have social security so they need to be registered.

How much of the 60% difference do you think that accounts for?
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