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A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

valve.computer

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Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#51

Post by kstenerud »

naikrovek wrote: post #29
bentt wrote: post #24

"But most important of all, is to have a lovely wife, who knows you're daft as a brush, and that life together is brilliant." Hold out for the partner that cheers you on when you're doing what you love.

> Hold out for the partner that cheers you on when you're doing what you love. If only it were that easy. Those kinds of people are few and far between. I’m almost 50 and I don’t think I’ve ever even met a woman who has actively encouraged me about a single thing. I’ve been married twice and have 4 daughters.

You must advertise to potential mates who you are from the start, so that you naturally attract those who like your deal and chase away those who don't.

I met my second wife this way, and our 6 years together were the best of my life. She was killed by a Russian tank in Ukraine in January, and I miss her more than anything.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#52

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

kazinator wrote: post #49
082349872349872 wrote: post #9

> When all the valves are glowing, I check the fire extinguisher is full, and run the code. It wasn't until working with valve hardware that I finally grokked the original difference between a cold boot and a warm one.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

Silicon. Silicone is the plastic used to make crummy kitchen utensils

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#53

Post by 082349872349872 »

kazinator wrote: post #49
082349872349872 wrote: post #9

> When all the valves are glowing, I check the fire extinguisher is full, and run the code. It wasn't until working with valve hardware that I finally grokked the original difference between a cold boot and a warm one.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

First boot in the morning was cold, and —the hardware having literally been cold— took minutes longer than subsequent, warm, boots.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#54

Post by reneherse »

kstenerud wrote: post #51
naikrovek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hold out for the partner that cheers you on when you're doing what you love. If only it were that easy. Those kinds of people are few and far between. I’m almost 50 and I don’t think I’ve ever even met a woman who has actively encouraged me about a single thing. I’ve been married twice and have 4 daughters.

You must advertise to potential mates who you are from the start, so that you naturally attract those who like your deal and chase away those who don't. I met my second wife this way, and our 6 years together were the best of my life. She was killed by a Russian tank in Ukraine in January, and I miss her more than anything.

I'm very sorry for your loss.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#55

Post by Doxin »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #52
kazinator wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

Silicon. Silicone is the plastic used to make crummy kitchen utensils

Silicone is a rubber made to make good kitchen utensils. The crummy plastic ones tend to be nylon or the like. Biggest tell is that silicone does not melt.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#56

Post by kazinator »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #52
kazinator wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

Silicon. Silicone is the plastic used to make crummy kitchen utensils

I'm amazed I made the typo twice in the same post.

Kazinator comments containing "silicone":

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Kazinator comments using "silicon"

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#57

Post by cjs_ac »

kazinator wrote: post #49
082349872349872 wrote: post #9

> When all the valves are glowing, I check the fire extinguisher is full, and run the code. It wasn't until working with valve hardware that I finally grokked the original difference between a cold boot and a warm one.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

The difference is that for solid-state logic, the heat is purely a waste byproduct, whereas for thermionic valves, the heat is the energy used by the electrons to move between the electrodes, hence the name. If the valves are cold, you have to wait for them to warm up before they can do anything.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#58

Post by kazinator »

082349872349872 wrote: post #53
kazinator wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

First boot in the morning was cold, and —the hardware having literally been cold— took minutes longer than subsequent, warm, boots.

That wouldn't be on account of the tubes; tube filaments do not take minutes to heat up the cathodes.

Warm boots can save time by not repeating all the boostrapping steps. In a warm boot, you typically don't execute any power-on self-checks, for starters.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#59

Post by mikewarot »

Having become accustomed to helping a friend fix old ham radio gear, 80 volts doesn't strike me as terribly dangerous.

In some of this stuff, over half of the power supplies output was dumped as heat in resistive divider networks just to bias things correctly and ensure operation. The filaments worked out to less than a fifth of the load in many cases.

Coming from a background of transistors and chips, it was wild to see so many 5 watt or more resistors in use.

Re: A modern 8 bit design, built using 1950s thermionic valves

#60

Post by jaystraw »

tass wrote: post #50
kazinator wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Silicone hardware generates heat. Neither silicone hardware nor tube hardware goes literally cold in a cold boot; just the power is cut for a moment, usually not long enough to lose a lot of heat.

I imagine these terms could have changed over time, but consider that a warm boot might have meant power off and on with these old computers. One difference is that the valves have more chance of burning out on a cold boot due to the temperature change.

in the music world, variacs are used to bring old tube amplifiers up to power slowly for that reason. not after being repaired or refurbished generally, but certainly when the amp's condition is unknown. the author of tfa said his new power supplies do that automatically, which is pretty neat.
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