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Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

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Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#51

Post by inhumantsar »

cjk2 wrote: post #14

Regular backpacker here. I don't want or need this. Literally we all use eSIMs and just have downtime occasionally, which is partially the point of it.

so?

considering that this is an add-on, not standalone, and the fact that it would mean like 2-3kg of extra weight to carry, backpackers who hike in places with good cell reception are not the target market.

doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who would use this.

eg: my mother and her husband live in a small town and use starlink since none of the local or national ISPs service that town. they also own a camper trailer and travels quite a bit now that they're retired.

the mini would be perfect for them. they could power it off the camper trailer's 12V, which would be a lot more efficient than going DC->AC->DC even if you ignore the power difference, and it would take up less space when not in use. they could also pause the mini service or use it as part of their home mesh for better bandwidth.

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#52

Post by lxgr »

whicks wrote: post #38

As a technologist, this is an incredible development. As a backpacker and avid hiker, no thank you. I go outside to intentionally avoid screens and the internet/connected world. Fortunately I can just not buy this and it won’t have an impact on my life. Another interesting thing I’m curious about is if this would provide any benefits to SAR crews over traditional sat phones. I could potentially see some benefits ther…

> I’m curious about is if this would provide any benefits to SAR crews over traditional sat phones.

For their communications, I doubt it, unless they happen to need low-latency video (e.g. for telemedicine for complicated cases). Existing solutions are pretty robust, and for anything you use on the move you probably want an omnidirectional antenna you don't have to rest on some surface in operation.

I could imagine this being interesting for drone-based/agumented missing person search, though!

> Fortunately I can just not buy this and it won’t have an impact on my life.

Thank you for saying this. So many people have a knee-jerk reaction of "this will ruin the outdoors" or "this means I can never disconnect anymore", which both kind of imply a concerning lack of agency. The outdoors are large enough for everybody, and nobody can force you to buy and bring one of these things!

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#53

Post by lxgr »

devit wrote: post #40
lxgr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to what? Even remotely comparable solutions drawing less power either cost something like $5-10 per megabyte (Inmarsat L-band, i.e. BGAN, Iridium Certus) or require even more power (Inmarsat Ka-band) and still cost something like 50 cent per megabyte! Monthly plans start at several hundred dollars, and terminals start in the low 4 to medium 5 digit ranges. If you can live without Internet when backpacking, e…

Compared to being in LTE coverage and only needing a smartphone with 2-3W power draw (around 10% of the Starlink Mini).

What makes you think you need satellite communications when there's (working) LTE? Obviously that's not the use case, just like you don't need fixed Starlink when there's (working) gigabit fiber available.

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#54

Post by lxgr »

hammock wrote: post #46
giraffe_lady wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of those are remotely common for recreational backpack hikers. Garmin inreach maybe, because it covers the two essentials this group actually wants of "check in with family" and "call for help." It would really surprise me if backpackers switch to this en masse, or if having it enabled anyone to start backpacking who currently can't because of this need being unmet. It'll probably get used on boats,…

Great use case examples. The marketing bit is "fits in a backpack" but really it's "fits in a base camp duffel/dry bag." People with a boat, sled, overlanding vehicle etc this is great

Not every backpack is used for backpacking! I use mine largely for the not-so-exciting trek to the office :)

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#55

Post by lxgr »

Amazing! In some way, this was the obvious next step (Starlink clearly had some capacity headroom for this), but still, this basically blows all existing competitors out of the water.

I wonder how much more bandwidth this uses compared to their stationary terminals. There's almost certainly a power/size vs. data rate trade-off here, which can explain why they don't offer it standalone in the US yet (the reasoning probably being that people will use their more efficient larger antenna at home most of the time), but do have standalone plans in areas where they probably have less users overall.

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#56

Post by lxgr »

lizknope wrote: post #20
rapsey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very short sided view. Something like this could save a bunch of lives of hikers because it means you are always connected when you need to be in case you get injured or lost.

Satellite phones have existed for decades. They are expensive and data speeds are slow but if you are talking about for emergency use then a satellite phone is smaller, cheaper, and more practical than Starlink. If you need high speed data in the middle on nowhere then Starlink is great

For emergency communications (i.e. calling SAR or maybe getting a doctor's opinion on whether you should), satellite messengers do just fine, and they're much cheaper. Newer iPhones even have this built-in!

Data speeds are measured in a handful of bits per second, though.

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#57

Post by mauvehaus »

rapsey wrote: post #18
cjk2 wrote: post #14

Regular backpacker here. I don't want or need this. Literally we all use eSIMs and just have downtime occasionally, which is partially the point of it.

This is a very short sided view. Something like this could save a bunch of lives of hikers because it means you are always connected when you need to be in case you get injured or lost.

You're missing out on the second order effects of SAR being called out and putting themselves at risk because someone (who probably shouldn't have been out there anyway) issued a distress call.

Ty Gagne wrote a book about the death of Kate Matrosova in the White Mountains of New Hampshire[0]. The search and rescue effort took place in absolutely harrowing conditions. That was enabled by the fact that she had a Spot/InReach/equivalent.

People backstopping their safety on extremely limited SAR resources and an assumption of being able to get them deployed in the first place is not an overall improvement in the safety of hikers or the people who stick their necks out getting them out of trouble.

[0]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36019816-where-you-ll-fi...

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#58

Post by bee_rider »

lxgr wrote: post #52
whicks wrote: post #38

As a technologist, this is an incredible development. As a backpacker and avid hiker, no thank you. I go outside to intentionally avoid screens and the internet/connected world. Fortunately I can just not buy this and it won’t have an impact on my life. Another interesting thing I’m curious about is if this would provide any benefits to SAR crews over traditional sat phones. I could potentially see some benefits ther…

> I’m curious about is if this would provide any benefits to SAR crews over traditional sat phones. For their communications, I doubt it, unless they happen to need low-latency video (e.g. for telemedicine for complicated cases). Existing solutions are pretty robust, and for anything you use on the move you probably want an omnidirectional antenna you don't have to rest on some surface in operation. I could imagine t…

It could make it easier to stream music, I’ve come across people who play music on Bluetooth speakers during their hikes. It is really weird behavior that spoils the area around them. Then again, they could just download the music if they are really that devoted to being a nuisance.

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#59

Post by hammock »

lxgr wrote: post #54
hammock wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great use case examples. The marketing bit is "fits in a backpack" but really it's "fits in a base camp duffel/dry bag." People with a boat, sled, overlanding vehicle etc this is great

Not every backpack is used for backpacking! I use mine largely for the not-so-exciting trek to the office :)

The point was the use case is better for people who are not traveling by foot

Re: Starlink Mini brings space internet to backpackers

#60

Post by lxgr »

bee_rider wrote: post #58
lxgr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m curious about is if this would provide any benefits to SAR crews over traditional sat phones. For their communications, I doubt it, unless they happen to need low-latency video (e.g. for telemedicine for complicated cases). Existing solutions are pretty robust, and for anything you use on the move you probably want an omnidirectional antenna you don't have to rest on some surface in operation. I could imagine t…

It could make it easier to stream music, I’ve come across people who play music on Bluetooth speakers during their hikes. It is really weird behavior that spoils the area around them. Then again, they could just download the music if they are really that devoted to being a nuisance.

Yeah, I'm also really not a fan of this. But as you say, this doesn't require an Internet connection.

Then again, I've also encountered large groups of hikers basically screaming to be able to all hear each other, sometimes while walking on narrow trails (making overtaking hard). It really doesn't take technology for people to be unaware of the space that they're in and be inconsiderate to others.

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