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EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

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51–60 of 90 posts

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delaware went against precedent and disallowed it Board competence is super precedented. Normally the courts defer to business judgement to an obnoxious degree, but if the Board isn’t independent it can no longer be assured to be serving its fiduciary duty. (To investors majority and minority.)

The ruling was mostly not about board's competence but based on judge's opinion that during original vote the shareholders weren't properly informed about things. Given that re-approval happened at similar levels of shareholders support, that judgement seems incorrect. And yes, it is unprecedented as in "there's no similar ruling in Delaware history". And I stress "similar", not the "board competence" idea you made u…

From McCormick's opinion:

“Put simply, neither the Compensation Committee nor the Board acted in the best interests of the Company when negotiating Musk’s compensation plan. In fact, there is barely any evidence of negotiations at all. Rather than negotiate against Musk with the mindset of a third party, the Compensation Committee worked alongside him, almost as an advisory body.”

“The Board never asked the $55.8 billion question: Was the plan even necessary for Tesla to retain Musk and achieve its goals?”

“The incredible size of the biggest compensation plan ever—an unfathomable sum—seems to have been calibrated to help Musk achieve what he believed would make “a good future for humanity” [related to Musk’s goal of colonizing Mars]. [T]hat had no relation to Tesla’s goals with the compensation plan.”

> As you yourself noted, the precedent in Delaware is that judges stay away from second guessing boards or shareholders and this seems like an activist ruling, not something based on past Delaware rulings.

Revisiting and potentially invalidating decisions regarding compensation is like an entire standalone unit in business associations/corporate law classes. There are flow charts with forks named after precedential cases.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#52
post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

Except fresh models are still behind and any sort of high-tech feature is $2000 extra.

I do agree saturation of seeing Tesla everywhere is real, but you have to stay rational. And rational means mass production vs 10k Ioniqs or whatever.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#53
post #32

> Sales data from April, collected by Automotive News, shows growth in the EV market outpacing that of vehicles as a whole. Electric sales were up 14 percent as a whole, which is a promising number. Yet, when you take Tesla out of the equation, those numbers skyrocket: Non-Tesla EV sales grew a full 69 percent over the same period.

Aren't the majority of US electric cars Teslas? This is a crap article. Comparing the second derivative of cars in the road is classic statistical cheating.

Bingo. Hyundai sells like 5k EVs per month in US. It's basically nothing.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#54
post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

You mean restyling? It's a feature of classic automakers that I actually don't like. It seems aimed at forcing consumers to get a new vehicle by making the old one seem deprecated. It's mimicking the fashion industry, where fashion shouldn't matter. If you mean vehicle development, Tesla does that, continuously. A 2022 model 3 is a different car from a 2018 model 3, as much as a 2024 highland is. You don't need to to…

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean restyling? It's a feature of classic automakers that I actually don't like. It seems aimed at forcing consumers to get a new vehicle by making the old one seem deprecated. It's mimicking the fashion industry, where fashion shouldn't matter. If you mean vehicle development, Tesla does that, continuously. A 2022 model 3 is a different car from a 2018 model 3, as much as a 2024 highland is. You don't need to to…

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

why would anyone need a new car every three years? I understand people want new stuff, but that's insanity.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#57
post #9

I am in the market for a new vehicle and am strongly considering purchasing an EV. Tesla’s lineup seems stale to me. The Model 3 is relatively modern. However, the Model Y is due for a refresh but project Juniper has been delayed. The Model X, and S are also stale. Competition offers fresh models with more better build quality and design. Tesla seems to be falling behind.

There's nothing stale about sitting in a Tesla.

For most other EVs, it still feels like you're sitting in a car.

The main reason I'd consider something other than a Tesla today:

  - What's the maximum range
  - How much range do you get for the price
  - What's the total cost (there are cheaper cars that look great)
As far as I'm concerned, nothing is outright beating Tesla on design. It's hard to beat simplicity.

Also, sitting in a Tesla on the road is a lot less special nowadays. It is the most common model. This used to be an argument I heard about why people would pick a Polestar over a Tesla: People would say "Hey, there's a car." and not "Hey, there's a Tesla." -- but nowadays, Teslas are as ubiquitous as cars, and all the new EVs have annoyingly bright beams.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but someone who got a Model S in 2018 and upgraded to a Model S in 2022, is probably not going to buy the same looking car in 2025

why would anyone need a new car every three years? I understand people want new stuff, but that's insanity.

Lease elapsed - might as well?

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#59

> Sales data from April, collected by Automotive News, shows growth in the EV market outpacing that of vehicles as a whole. Electric sales were up 14 percent as a whole, which is a promising number. Yet, when you take Tesla out of the equation, those numbers skyrocket: Non-Tesla EV sales grew a full 69 percent over the same period.

Maybe Tesla's market/customer base has just saturated.

It would be kind of weird if the customer base for a Tesla 3/Y was fundamentally different from the customer base for, say, a VW id.4 or that Hyundai whose name I forget that is everywhere, tho.

Re: EVs Are Selling Well for Everyone Except Tesla

#60

And yet "Tesla Y has taken the top spot on the sales chart, outselling the Corolla in 2023 as the world's most popular passenger car." According to https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-sell... I think the car advice journalism is hopelessly polarised and political, like everything else. Sad.

This is essentially down to marketing strategy. Tesla only makes two mass-market cars, the 3 and Y. This is pretty unusual in the industry. VW Group, say, makes about 10, with another 10 or so coming soon, all on the same platform, some of which, like the Cupra Born, are just a straight-up rebadge of others.

The number of sales of a _specific model_ of car is rarely a useful comparison point, because, in most cases, any given model of car has a bunch of sister models for market segmentation purposes anyway.

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