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Notes on Tajikistan

mattlakeman.org

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Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#51

Post by meowtimemania »

mkoubaa wrote: post #28
OutOfHere wrote: post #5

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

Saying "Islam being kept in check" in this way sounds an implication that religion (or perhaps just this one) ought to be suppressed. This sort of attitude and policy coming from it is like gasoline for religious extremism, and the fact that Tajikistan exports extremists should be enough evidence for that

I think by "kept in check" they mean good separation of church and state. Some islamic countries don't have good separation of church and state.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#52

Post by repelsteeltje »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #41
ranni_ending wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah at another point he distanced himself from making racist movies about country he has 0 idea about. then you bring up an example of him trying to hide behind his Jewish identity to be above criticism as a "joke". it's trivial to punch down and then act like a victim by bringing up your own identity. People who find it easy to make fun of others while being extremely thin-skinned themselves: https://www.timesofisr…

He's not punching down or hiding behind an ethnic identity, he's mocking the idea of someone being upset over a parody/mockery/comedy.

Yeah, but I see his point about getting away with this type of humor only because most viewers hardly know Kazachstan actually exists. I might be upset if I were a Kazakh, or I might not be - but I probably would find I hilarious.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#53

Post by inglor_cz »

mkoubaa wrote: post #28
OutOfHere wrote: post #5

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

Saying "Islam being kept in check" in this way sounds an implication that religion (or perhaps just this one) ought to be suppressed. This sort of attitude and policy coming from it is like gasoline for religious extremism, and the fact that Tajikistan exports extremists should be enough evidence for that

It is not just a religion, but a legal and societal system. A very medieval one.

Few people care if you believe that Muhammad rode to heaven on a magic horse (Buraq). But quite a lot of people care if you want to introduce hand amputations for theft, as demanded by Sharia Law, or different inheritance rules for sons and daughters where being female = being less valuable.

The medieval-practical parts of Islam must definitely be kept in check, unless the country in question is willing to regress into some very dark ages. That is something that Ataturk understood very well when reforming Turkey.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#54

Post by brnt »

ssijak wrote: post #25
geoka9 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the most beautiful mountain scenery I've ever seen and very hospitable people. A very nice place to visit. Not a very good place to live though unless you're so rich that you don't have to rely on the local infrastructure and services for survival and quality of life.

I find life to also be bad if you are the only rich person isolated in a bubble when 99% of the people are in extreme poverty. You just can't feel good, unless you don't care.

Also, sharp gradients inherently incentivize attempts to equalise. It is an unstable situation.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#55

Post by numbers »

I love this style of writing and how it introduces a place I almost never thought about before. I didn't know anything about Tajikstan except its name so this was all new information. Thank you!

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#56

Post by aenopix »

OutOfHere wrote: post #5

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

They are exremist, they banned Eid celebrations, they banned the Hijab....

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#57

Post by DEADMINCE »

repelsteeltje wrote: post #52
DEADMINCE wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not punching down or hiding behind an ethnic identity, he's mocking the idea of someone being upset over a parody/mockery/comedy.

Yeah, but I see his point about getting away with this type of humor only because most viewers hardly know Kazachstan actually exists. I might be upset if I were a Kazakh, or I might not be - but I probably would find I hilarious.

> because most viewers hardly know Kazachstan actually exists

I really don't mean to be insulting to US people here, but I really think this would be a huge difference in the populations between the US and other countries where the film was popular.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#58

Post by pseingatl »

inglor_cz wrote: post #53
mkoubaa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Islam being kept in check" in this way sounds an implication that religion (or perhaps just this one) ought to be suppressed. This sort of attitude and policy coming from it is like gasoline for religious extremism, and the fact that Tajikistan exports extremists should be enough evidence for that

It is not just a religion, but a legal and societal system. A very medieval one. Few people care if you believe that Muhammad rode to heaven on a magic horse (Buraq). But quite a lot of people care if you want to introduce hand amputations for theft, as demanded by Sharia Law, or different inheritance rules for sons and daughters where being female = being less valuable. The medieval-practical parts of Islam must def…

Hand amputations for theft are not automatic, even in Saudi Arabia. Even pickpockets preying on pilgrims in the Prophet's Mosque do not automatically suffer the penalty.

However, many believe that this is the case. The erroneous belief does tend to keep crime down.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#59

Post by slt2021 »

rvense wrote: post #10
OutOfHere wrote: post #5

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

Islam is extremely important to Tajik identity. But Tajikistan is making the same mistake many other Muslim dictatorships and authocracies did. By not having a real open political system, the only place for dissent to take root is in Islamist circles, and then that's the opposition you get.

Tajikistan had civil war in 1990s where Islamist radicals were the opposition and wanted to turn TJ into sharia run state.

open political system actually makes islam opposition stronger (and easy to influence with $$$ from Gulf monarchies).

Keeping islam in check, also means keeping in check Gulf oil $$$$ that install their own version of islam.

the pipeline of volunteers from *stans to join ISIS/Al-Qaeda was funded and enabled by Gulf monarchies.

If there is another big war in the Middle East - guess from where all the islamist volunteer fighters will be coming from - from these poor 3rd world islamist countries, the *stan countries

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#60

Post by protomolecule »

rvense wrote: post #6

An amazing place. I visited twice about 15 years ago and have many fond memories of it, but mostly when I think about it I'm filled with sadness, because the people there deserve so much better. They're constantly knee-deep in corruption, both street level and just the very blatant kleptocratic presidential family. There's a lot of ethnic Russians, both expat workers and ones that didn't manage to leave after the col…

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