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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

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Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#51

Post by Moldoteck »

notoverthere wrote: post #29
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

There's also the Centennial Light [1], a light bulb made in the late 1890s. It was first lit in 1901 and it's still alight today. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light

i guess a lot of lights will work a lot longer if powered at such low voltage and not switched on/off like most ppl do, but this would reduce a lot nr of cases where such a light can be used

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#52

Post by cbmuser »

promiseofbeans wrote: post #44
cornel_io wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9 years is a lot to expect it to be under warranty...

I think you've been conditioned by anti-consumer companies who want you to BUY BUY BUY to expect that. Ovens should last 20 years or more, and if you're sold a faulty product, it's fair to expect it to be fixed. Luckily there are still a few countries at the bottom of the world with good consumer legislation.

You do realize that in the end the manufacturers will just increase prices or move production to low-wage countries, no?

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#53

Post by graemep »

RobotToaster wrote: post #19
Tistron wrote: post #3

Does anyone know whether and how this translates to other places in the world? For me, it's the most interesting with EU/Sweden. We don't have courts like this do we?

I know EU law requires a two year warranty on everything, it was one of the few good things the UK got out of it.

The law in the UK is a bit more complex than that. It has to be of what used to be called merchantable quality (they changed the term I think) which means that if something breaks because of something like a manufacturing flaw or design defect you are covered for the reasonable life of the product (so could be a very long time for something like an oven).

This is old law (common law, although now redefined in legislation). EU law added some protections on top of this, and non-EU UK law added more. I am not up to date with the details, but there are plenty of readable guides out there to anyone who needs them.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#54

Post by afiori »

notoverthere wrote: post #29
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

There's also the Centennial Light [1], a light bulb made in the late 1890s. It was first lit in 1901 and it's still alight today. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light

Which to be honest has the power efficiency of a dim campfire

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#55

Post by cbmuser »

shermozle wrote: post #33
cornel_io wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9 years is a lot to expect it to be under warranty...

But the flip of that is that if the manufacturer doesn't think it'll work longer than 2 years, that needs to be disclosed forcefully at sale time.

It‘s extremely difficult to predict the lifetime of a consumer product as it also depends on how it’s being used.

Who knows, maybe the author has been using the oven excessively or never cleaned it etc.

So far, we‘ve heard one side only.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#56

Post by mytailorisrich »

promiseofbeans wrote: post #48
mytailorisrich wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there was no court case. Considering the cost of sending a lawyer attend the hearing and the potential risk of creating a precedent, it may simpler and cheaper to send an engineer when someone complains too loudly...

There is already a precedent - the law. These go to court all the time, and the consumer almost always wins, hence why the companies want to avoid the lawyer fees, since they know they'll lose.

The law is not a precedent. The law is generic and courts deal with specifics.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#57

Post by Tistron »

deugtniet wrote: post #5
Tistron wrote: post #3

Does anyone know whether and how this translates to other places in the world? For me, it's the most interesting with EU/Sweden. We don't have courts like this do we?

Here you go :-) https://e-justice.europa.eu/42/EN/small_claims?SWEDEN&member... This link also contains a reference for all other EU member states

Cool, thank you!

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#58

Post by bzzzt »

arp242 wrote: post #46
shermozle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question I ask straight back at you: how long do you think an oven should last?

This is an interesting question; Netherlands has a similar law, and the general guidelines for stuff like ovens is, depending on the purchase price: ≤ € 199 2 years € 200 - 299 3 years € 300 - 399 4 years € 400 - 499 5 years € 500 - 599 6 years € 600 - 699 7 years ≥ € 700 8 years Note these are just guidelines and not fixed rules. On one hand this seems rather short to me, on the other hand, it's kind of a "you get w…

Note that this doesn't mean you get 8 years of warranty on an expensive oven. Just that if it fails in 4 years you still can claim 50% of the purchase price.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#59

Post by xlii »

I disagree.

I have a similar situation right now. Washing machine is leaking when load is anything bigger than light load. Initial guarantee claim to Whirlpool was sent 8 weeks ago. It's dead, no response from anyone.

Under consumer rights shop should refund, but claim is without response for 3 weeks (14 calendar days is upper limit according to EU law + local regulations).

Today I was supposed to contact the lawyer, but I figured out that f** this s**. It's weeks of legal battle over 300€. They won. Stress enough isn't worth it.

Oven is a different thing though, as I don't think it's as essential as washing machine (and dragging clothes every week for washing).

Maybe I should file a claim to refund after it was made, but it's still a net loss. Lesson learned: stay away from manufacturer Whirlpool, don't ever spend a dime on a shop and live on.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#60

Post by divan »

MHBKD recently made a video on Apple testing lab [1], and one thing he talked about and that was kinda new to me is seeing repairability as a spectrum. I.e. on one side is "indestructible" product and on the other is "perfectly repairable". And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive.

In a hindsight it seems obvious, still this video was the first time I've heard this verbalized so clearly.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8reaJG7z-is

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