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Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#51

Post by panarchy »

massinstall wrote: post #31

From the publication: “The speculation that the hand gesture herein presented is a freemasonry’s conveyed code is fascinating, but it is hard to accept.” This sentence concluded a very short paragraph that apparently aimed to explore whether the hand sign could have a Masonic meaning. But instead of giving any explanation for their conclusion, the authors merely postulate the above without any given reasoning. I’m su…

This reads like it belongs in an episode of The Curse of Oak Island not an article.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#52

Post by hamasho »

This reminds me of Korea's progressive feminist hand gesture [0]. For some reason, a video about Korea's gender war [1] ended up in my YouTube recommendation and somehow I decided to watch the 47-minute video (and another 110 minutes for part 2)...

Basically, aggressive feminist groups use a hand gesture as a disrespect against men (or misogynists), but the gesture is so general and anti-feminism is so large in Korea, that a lot of people mistook the otherwise normal picture in anime/games as a hidden attack against men. It caused riots and several people lost their jobs or sometimes the entire projects/companies went down.

I think it's not a good idea to associate a very natural gesture with horrible intentions...

[0] https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/02/business/south-korea-busi... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Im4YAMWK74

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#54

Post by aspenmayer »

andrewla wrote: post #15
stanleykm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it started as a fabrication it was pretty quickly adopted by the crowd you’d expect to be using such a hand gesture. IOW “Teehee I’m doing a hand gesture everyone thinks is racist but its not because its an internet joke” isnt the own you think it is.

[flagged]

That’s literally how high signs work - they’re plausibly deniable, and innocuous or indecipherable to those in the out-group, and/or a shibboleth signifying being part of the in-group.

> The title refers to the secret hand signal used by the film's underworld gang.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Sign

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#55

Post by leocgcd »

i think papers like this reveal the benefits of domain-specific methodologies. a scientific paper is a bad choice for historiography.

art historical texts are usually much more concerned with close reading of artworks to establish syncretic pathways of artistic convention. art writers are usually unconcerned with null hypothesis and burden of proof. the authors here had no real claim about history or any interesting reading of artwork. i couldn't imagine something like this being disseminated in an arts journal or publication-- there just isn't enough time spent with the methods of art history, i.e close readings of the examples presented, primary source inclusion, historiographic narrative, formal analysis, etc.

i wish i could provide a counterexample, but my work is on american conceptual sculpture, not renaissance art. i think the last very good text i read on the renaissance was james hall's book on michelangelo's anatomy published some years ago.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#57

Post by flir »

hamasho wrote: post #52

This reminds me of Korea's progressive feminist hand gesture [0]. For some reason, a video about Korea's gender war [1] ended up in my YouTube recommendation and somehow I decided to watch the 47-minute video (and another 110 minutes for part 2)... Basically, aggressive feminist groups use a hand gesture as a disrespect against men (or misogynists), but the gesture is so general and anti-feminism is so large in Korea…

> I think it's not a good idea to associate a very natural gesture with horrible intentions...

I imagine it's a very good idea, if you have horrible intentions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ok-sign-wh...

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#58

Post by kjkjadksj »

runjake wrote: post #35
massinstall wrote: post #31

From the publication: “The speculation that the hand gesture herein presented is a freemasonry’s conveyed code is fascinating, but it is hard to accept.” This sentence concluded a very short paragraph that apparently aimed to explore whether the hand sign could have a Masonic meaning. But instead of giving any explanation for their conclusion, the authors merely postulate the above without any given reasoning. I’m su…

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

Sometimes with these sorts of organizations their deepest secrets are the meaning of their public symbology.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#59

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

fidotron wrote: post #43
runjake wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> 32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. Would you actually be able to say it if they were?

Probably not, the Freemason Police patrol this internet web site daily, and he'd disappear in the middle of the night, never to be heard from again. Be sure to follow up on his comment history a month from now, to see whether he's said anything since.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#60

Post by Timon3 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #58
runjake wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

Sometimes with these sorts of organizations their deepest secrets are the meaning of their public symbology.

Do you have any examples you could share?
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