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Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

5in5nyc.com

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Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#51

Post by tptacek »

powrtoch wrote: post #49
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grotesque sans were uncommon before the (say) 60s, and were very stylized for the time. You just don't notice that because we've been accustomed to them for so long, and because they are very effective for their purpose. The parent comment is correct. Comic Sans isn't just stylized; it's a stylized face designed for a very particular purpose (as a stand-in for the hand lettering in comic books). And the problem with…

> Grotesque sans were uncommon before the (say) 60s, and were very stylized for the time. Source? Wikipedia sayeth about Helvetica: "The aim of the new design was to create a neutral typeface that had great clarity, no intrinsic meaning in its form, and could be used on a wide variety of signage." There's a history of sans-serifs (with emphasis on grotesques) here http://www.linotype.com/en/795/thesansseriftypefaces.…

Best I can do:

http://www.freddesign.co.uk/2010/04/archive/the-differences-...

... which suggests that Akzidenz didn't come into modern use until the '50s.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#53

Post by polemic »

huggyface wrote: post #46
posabsolute wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shooting for the same thing. This guy does not seems to know anything about typography and his article is ridiculously small for such a big topic. Comic Sans is grotesque and was badly designed from the start. One has to wonder why it was popular, i'm sure there is a ton of article about that (surely the author should have deepen a bit in the subject and check that), But if I would have to guess, in the 2000 de…

The vast majority of readers are not font snobs. They don't debate the merits of kerning or whitespace balance. But they do notice when trendy fonts trend. And comic sans most certainly did trend, and it was that trend -- and not its relative font merit -- that made it so deridden. It is the Croc shoes of the font world. Wow that analogy works really well because while shoe snobs can rail off the problems with the mi…

Except I would refute that users are as aware of Lobster as the author might think.

Comic Sans shows up everywhere. Lecture slides, shop signs, product packaging... it (was|is)? ubiquitous.

Now, Lobster might twig in the minds of typography geeks and designers, but it isn't nearly prevalent enough to be in the concious of 99.999% of users. Let's face it, 99.999% users don't spend all their time on start-up websites.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#54

Post by harrylove »

mistercow wrote: post #47
gyardley wrote: post #15

Oy. Comic Sans isn't problematic because everyone uses it, it's problematic because it's a bad font. The kerning alone is reason enough not to use it. http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/ By this author's logic we should all stop using Helvetica, too - it's way too common.

Well, you probably really should not use Helvetica or Arial in your logo .

Part of the beauty of Helvetica is that people typically don't think about it. It's everywhere and it's a subtle typeface. That's why many brands use it in their wordmarks.

For example, see Helvetica and Neue Helvetica in the logos of BMW, 3M, Gap, American Apparel, Jeep, The NBA, Lufthansa, Target, Motorola, Verizon Wireless, McDonald's and Microsoft. There are many others I'm sure.

Now if you had said Papyrus, I would tend to agree with you.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#55

Post by mistercow »

harrylove wrote: post #54
mistercow wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you probably really should not use Helvetica or Arial in your logo .

Part of the beauty of Helvetica is that people typically don't think about it. It's everywhere and it's a subtle typeface. That's why many brands use it in their wordmarks. For example, see Helvetica and Neue Helvetica in the logos of BMW, 3M, Gap, American Apparel, Jeep, The NBA, Lufthansa, Target, Motorola, Verizon Wireless, McDonald's and Microsoft. There are many others I'm sure. Now if you had said Papyrus, I wo…

But all of those logos were designed decades ago, and it was a perfectly reasonable typeface for logo design. The reason it has been used so often is, of course, that it is a very well designed font. But the whole point here is that its ubiquity makes it generally a poor choice for new logos. An aesthetic does not exist in a vacuum, and the cultural context of Helvetica is that it now looks generic.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#56

Post by wmil »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7
davecap1 wrote: post #4

Lobster is a nice, versatile, _trendy_ typeface. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all, and there was nothing wrong with Comic Sans either. However it drives my friends who aspire to be designers into frothing fits of rage. It was explained to me this way, "Chuck lets say that bubble sorts and bloom filters were these versatile algorithms that worked really well on a few things, but a bunch of cut-n-paste programmers started using them for every program they wrote, hello world with a bub…

I've seen formal government documents signed by ministers that were printed in Comic Sans.

Sure, there's a place for Comic Sans, but it's used in so many places that it shouldn't be.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#57

Post by planetguy »

huggyface wrote: post #46
posabsolute wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shooting for the same thing. This guy does not seems to know anything about typography and his article is ridiculously small for such a big topic. Comic Sans is grotesque and was badly designed from the start. One has to wonder why it was popular, i'm sure there is a ton of article about that (surely the author should have deepen a bit in the subject and check that), But if I would have to guess, in the 2000 de…

The vast majority of readers are not font snobs. They don't debate the merits of kerning or whitespace balance. But they do notice when trendy fonts trend. And comic sans most certainly did trend, and it was that trend -- and not its relative font merit -- that made it so deridden. It is the Croc shoes of the font world. Wow that analogy works really well because while shoe snobs can rail off the problems with the mi…

Comic sans was never trendy, as such. Instead, its ubiquity was due to the fact that:

a) It was included in the default font set of just about every computer sold from nineteen-ninety-something to today, and

b) It was the only default font that was "fun" and "not boring" to the great unwashed masses of typographically unsophisticated people (a category in which I include even myself)

So everybody from teenagers to grandmothers would look through their font list and go "boring, boring, boring, ooh this one looks like handwriting, that's fun, I'll go with that". The other reason it's derided is therefore that it's used by design-naive people and hence associated with bad design; Comic Sans is very likely to be accompanied by flashing pink text and ugly clip art.

While writing this, I suddenly noticed that the expenses reimbursement form sitting on the desk in front of me is in Comic Sans. So add "HR reps" to the list.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#59

Post by Steko »

harrylove wrote: post #54
mistercow wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you probably really should not use Helvetica or Arial in your logo .

Part of the beauty of Helvetica is that people typically don't think about it. It's everywhere and it's a subtle typeface. That's why many brands use it in their wordmarks. For example, see Helvetica and Neue Helvetica in the logos of BMW, 3M, Gap, American Apparel, Jeep, The NBA, Lufthansa, Target, Motorola, Verizon Wireless, McDonald's and Microsoft. There are many others I'm sure. Now if you had said Papyrus, I wo…

It was only a matter of time before someone brought up Papyrus because Comic Sans hate is so over.

Re: Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans

#60

Post by Pheter »

tptacek wrote: post #38
ericskiff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch :) My point is largely that Lobster has a much more defined and recognizable look than classic "Sans" fonts like Arial and Helvetica and "Serif" fonts like Times and Georgia. The look is recognizable enough that it evokes comparison to other sites, which you may want to consider. It can also break down the fourth wall between your site and it's viewers if they recognize the font. They go "oh, that's lobster, one…

Professional designers can spot Gotham instantly, and will make fun of you for using it in a logotype. The relevance of that to a web app developer is zero.

Why is Gotham a bad choice for logotypes?
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