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Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

bbc.com

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Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#51

Post by ricardo81 »

The article starts with intimating that SEO is the problem. Perhaps to an extent it is, though I'd say with G's massive market share that optimising for one sweet spot with one search engine is really the problem. It makes SEO easier, one search engine and criteria. 20-25 years ago when there were half a dozen prominent engines you'd be ranking well in some but not others. A good argument for alternative algorithms (and search engines).

Generative AI is no doubt useful for simple questions, and perhaps for people who aren't even interested in being sceptical about the answer given, but it seems at too high a cost for the visibility of the actual web and the effort put in by content creators.

Obviously with the huge and unrivalled ROI G gets from ads vs any rivals, the fact they're the default on most mobiles etc means any alternatives have a huge uphill battle to get seen.

At least there is Bing (and its meta variants), Mojeek (independent, a smaller index but truly independent) and Brave (claims independence but has a historical tie to scraping results)

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#52

Post by whstl »

Varloom wrote: post #33
coldcode wrote: post #18

I searched for how to use a massage ball (my back hurts) last week and got a giant page full of ads and ad-like sections for buying one with barely any articles at all. That is not a search engine; it's an ads engine.

I reduced my google search engine usage by 90% Just Option+Space and get the answer with ChatGPT for MacOS. No ads, no nonsense, just the answer.

ChatGPT is also becoming a victim of SEO. Not purely at the crawling level, but also at the answer level.

But as a default, it gives mostly "SEO-optimized" answers in a SEO-optimized format. Even simple question are answered with bullet points. Some descriptions look like advertisements and it's all very authoritative, even when it's just bullshitting/guessing and doesn't really know the answer for sure. This is what I was escaping from.

EDIT: For example the last thing I asked was how Brendan O'Brien did sample replacement in drums in Blood Sugar Sex Magic. It answered something that was 90% plausible but most of the content was walls and walls of text about the equipment it assumed it was used (plus info on more equipment unrelated to sample replacement), rather than actually answering the question itself.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#54

Post by user3939382 »

threeseed wrote: post #41
Varloom wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reduced my google search engine usage by 90% Just Option+Space and get the answer with ChatGPT for MacOS. No ads, no nonsense, just the answer.

> No ads, no nonsense, just the answer. 5 - 10% of the time that answer will be complete rubbish. We need something better than Google and LLMs e.g. Golden before it was acquired: https://golden.com

Kagi works great.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#55

Post by gms7777 »

datavirtue wrote: post #24
coldcode wrote: post #18

I searched for how to use a massage ball (my back hurts) last week and got a giant page full of ads and ad-like sections for buying one with barely any articles at all. That is not a search engine; it's an ads engine.

Get The Back Mechanic book.

I appreciate the parent commenter complaining about how they were looking for something just to get ads instead, and getting a response telling them to buy something.

That said, I'll also second the back mechanic book for anyone with back pain.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#56

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

rsolva wrote: post #40

We need to make bookmarks a common way to access the web again! So many people use Google or other search engines to access even the most basic sites, instead of storing a bookmark or typing out the whole URL. I have used a simple bookmarking strategy in Firefox for some years now, simply storing everything and anything I suspect I might want to retrieve later. I give each bookmark a few quick keywords and store it a…

Yeah, and, along the same lines, directories should perhaps also make a comeback -- like the old Yahoo! Directory or DMOZ. Just a carefully curated and organized list of trusted sites that are made and managed by humans and for humans. Unlike, say, DMOZ, the directory of the future should be easier to navigate and incorporate "modern" features -- and it should also be easily searchable. (All sites on the directory are indexed; no sites off the directory are indexed.)

Searching for B2B products and services has become a lot tougher lately. A good directory could conceivably make a meaningful difference.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#57

Post by mkroman »

kriops wrote: post #42
coldcode wrote: post #18

I searched for how to use a massage ball (my back hurts) last week and got a giant page full of ads and ad-like sections for buying one with barely any articles at all. That is not a search engine; it's an ads engine.

Kagi costs Spotify money, has zero ads, and lets you customise the results.

It also can't fetch more than 2 pages of results for either web or image search. Reverse image search just straight up doesn't work. I don't know why they have it.

With searxng, searching at least works. It also has plugins that I think can do some of what Kagi is useful for (but it depends on the instance)

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#58

Post by hollerith »

ricardo81 wrote: post #51

The article starts with intimating that SEO is the problem. Perhaps to an extent it is, though I'd say with G's massive market share that optimising for one sweet spot with one search engine is really the problem. It makes SEO easier, one search engine and criteria. 20-25 years ago when there were half a dozen prominent engines you'd be ranking well in some but not others. A good argument for alternative algorithms (…

>20-25 years ago when there were half a dozen prominent engines

That's not how I remember it. My recollection is that for a year or 2 (roughly 1998 and 1999) Altavista was the dominant engine, which rapidly gave way to Google essentially as soon as Google became available, and since 2000 Google has been the dominant engine.

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, I was getting my info on what engines people were using mostly from Usenet, Slashdot and a non-web-based forum called river.org.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#59

Post by Kye »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #25
beretguy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Duckduckgo still provides decent results in my experience. I’ve been using ddg since around 2016, but in the past few months I realize that brave gives me better results and Kagi even still better. So I’m switching to brave/Kagi combo. Brave for when i need to find easy stuff and Kagi when really need to find something.

I don't see the point in using DDG. Brave Search is a superior replacement.

I try to live my values, so I can't use it. It's a rare case where I really do have a choice.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#60

Post by throwaway211 »

jayski wrote: post #46
throwaway211 wrote: post #28

Two big reasons people add Reddit to search phrases is because Reddit's search isn't functional and to deprioritise Ad Junk from search. It's to fix broken search, which gets more broken - more unwanted Ad Junk. But Google's an advertising company with it's ad search device in everyone's pocket. At least it's reached sufficient post-don't-be-evil to be honestly shameless, even if it does employ people in PR with brok…

Reddit is the only social network I use. They're really dropping the ball by not having a fantastic search tool. I know search is a difficult problem, but with the kind of budget and engineering power they have it has to be solvable.

Before: They were small. It was hard. Defer to Google.

Now: By having bad search, Google rewards them.

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