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ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#52

Post by ilaksh »

I have always suspected that part of the explanation for why these heinous things are occurring without any actual consequences is the larger military strategic situation. And I think that aspect of it being left out of the discussion is not helping.

The Gaza area is strategically extremely significant for the US and other allies as well as their enemies.

I suspect that this may be the reason why Israel is allowed to continue regardless of how many civilian casualties. And also may in some way explain some of the resilience of the fighters there despite how deadly Israel has made dissent. Iran will always fund anyone who dares poke their head up to resist. Because again, it's a very strategic position. Not only in terms of the sea but also on putting pressure on a US ally.

I will probably just be accused of being a conspiracy theorist, but if any of this is slightly true, I think it should be part of the discussion. I think the reason it is not discussed is because the US and allies don't want to admit that they could stop it if they wanted but they really don't want to because of the strategic situation.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#53

Post by stanfordkid »

BunsanSpace wrote: post #41
seo-speedwagon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine response: the “wider positions on the nature of the I/P conflict” are essential to informing the situation, and cannot be divorced from the discussion. Israel has no ethical response because there is no ethical means by which one can maintain apartheid. History did not start on Oct 7, 2023. It’s like pondering where the line is between legitimate and illegitimate responses to the Warsaw ghetto uprising, or to…

"History did not start on Oct 7, 2023" Where should we start? When the arabs colonized the levant? or the many massacres of native jews? The wars of aggression by arabs? This conflict is awfully messy and each side has a laundry list of legitimate grievances.

Not really. It’s absurd to draw the line into ancient history of Arab’s colonizing the Levant. Early 1900s to 1948 are more reasonable given that people actually exist that lived in this time or at least meaningful records of history.

The fact is the British/UN gave a bunch of land to people that wasn’t really theirs to give. Nakba happened (which is illegal to even talk about in Israel) which was already a mass genocide/forced displacement). People alive today saw this happen. Watch the documentary Tantura to see some of the horrors by early Israelis (rapes, torture, killing people and feeding them their own genitals).

The point is: throughout most of modern history “Israel” has been invading Palestine. The fact that the UN recognized Israel in 1949 doesn’t matter… because that recognition required mass displacement and horrors to actually materialize.

Arab wars etc are a consequence of this. Sure maybe Israel won some of those. But one has to accept that the very conceptualization of Israel is rooted in genocide and displacement from the start. Many (or maybe most) states throughout history were formed this way I guess … Israel had the bad luck of doing it during a time that the human rights and morality of modernity was beginning to fully form.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#57

Post by tsimionescu »

aen1 wrote: post #34
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the Falklands War the discussion was around military deaths, not civilian deaths. The problem people have with Israel is not that they're killing Hamas fighters or that IDF soldiers are being killed. It's that they're killing civilians (amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity). It's a completely different situation. Edit: just to flesh out my position here a bit. Civilian deaths are unavoidable in…

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If people who support an immoral attack are military combatants, then clearly we should consider that the vast majority of Israel's population, who support the current genocide, are military combatants.

Of course, this is completely insane logic and I don't believe so at all. Killing a civilian is abhorrent, whether that civilian might support an atrocity or not, as long as they weren't actually involved in it.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#58

Post by belter »

michael1999 wrote: post #38
markus_zhang wrote: post #6

The ICJ is powerless. How does it purpose to enforce it, or anything?

The ICJ can issue warrants for individuals, and the many signatories are then obliged to arrest those people should they travel. Even Kissinger had to take care where he changed planes.

> The ICJ can issue warrants for individuals, and the many signatories are then obliged to arrest those people should they travel.

South Africa who has been allowed to instrumentalize the court, because it is politically convenient. A few months ago, South Africa was leaving the ICC...

"South Africa moves to quit ICC over Putin arrest warrant — then backs down" - https://www.politico.eu/article/south-africa-cyril-ramaphosa...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#60

Post by niemandhier »

aen1 wrote: post #34
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the Falklands War the discussion was around military deaths, not civilian deaths. The problem people have with Israel is not that they're killing Hamas fighters or that IDF soldiers are being killed. It's that they're killing civilians (amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity). It's a completely different situation. Edit: just to flesh out my position here a bit. Civilian deaths are unavoidable in…

[flagged]

Most NGOS concluded that an evacuation of Rafah is impossible. Given the lumber of people and the state of the infrastructure I tend to agree.
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