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Scandal at America's top science fair

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Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need the money. They want to win so they can get into college.

Is college that important when you’re already rich af? There are other channels to get in without risking reputational ruin.

The boy cones from an Indian background which is highly competitive and looks down on it's own people if they are not "successful" career wise

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#53

Science fairs always have hints of fraud around them. Many of the children putting out incredibly advanced research, beyond their capacity, are benefiting from their parents’ expertise, or friends of family, or access to labs, and such. It’s not talked about much but has been an issue for decades. As a side note, the criticism around this incident seems to have some racial tones. It’s weird to see tweets referring to…

[deleted]

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#54

I was a finalist at the 2017 ISEF and it was quite an experience. A lot of super smart kids there and we all had fun living it up in Los Angeles. There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. No hate to high schoolers getting valuable STEM experience at local universities, but Regeneron should do more to diffe…

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations.

Said with kindness and discretion.

Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#55

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

I think it features in the song “we are the champions,” so before 1977. I think “I’ve made mistakes/people make mistakes” has been used to euphemistically describe a lapse of judgement for a really long time.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#57

I wrote an earlier reply to someone about how all I learned from the several mandatory ethics courses is that the people who cheat tend to be winners even after their punishment, if any. I bet that even after all this, that kid will still be better off having cheated than not.

I had an ethics (philosophy) course in uni and I don't think _ethos_ is about winning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#58
post #54

I was a finalist at the 2017 ISEF and it was quite an experience. A lot of super smart kids there and we all had fun living it up in Los Angeles. There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. No hate to high schoolers getting valuable STEM experience at local universities, but Regeneron should do more to diffe…

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. Said with kindness and discretion. Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong…

We are family friends with a Chinese national who did pretty well in this year's ISEF. They spent last summer back in mainland China at a private science fair camp where they prepped and prebuilt most of their project for the year. They are very bright, did a ton of real work, but had a large paid team behind them supporting and helping. They almost could have professional and amateur divisions at this point.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#59
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need the money. They want to win so they can get into college.

Is college that important when you’re already rich af? There are other channels to get in without risking reputational ruin.

More important than ever. Rich and your kids didn't get into the Ivy you were graduated from? Shameful.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#60

It's frustrating that we encourage fraudulent behavior for the college application process. I blame the judges, and college admissions departments. It orients the entire USA public education system around training sociopathic behavior into teenagers. We tell young people the best way to get ahead in life is through exaggerating. Then we train them to do it in their college essays and extracurriculars. Gross.

We need lottery based admissions. Let schools set a minimum test score, and anyone over that goes into lottery for admissions. Kill off essays, extra curriculars, club sports, summer programs, AP tests, Legacy admits, early applications, and let kids have some life again.
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