51–60 of 94 posts
Funny, if you were to ask that in North America, you'd be called xenophobic.
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> A job like a doctor or engineer pays decently well in your home country It is not in Turkey but again, it is not about money. People want to move to Western Europe for multiple reasons. I met with a brain surgeon from South Korea who moved to Germany, because he just wanted to live in the centre of the Europe so he can travel around easily. I'm also telling people to move to the US if they only care money but that'…
> It is not in Turkey Hence why I called out Eastern Europe and MENA, though Turks who can afford it do try to target the US instead. For example, all of Erdogan's kids attended IU Bloomington for undergrad and grad school instead of German programs like LMU or TUM, and the Koç family (the family that controls the Turkish economy) sent most of their kids to Stanford, JHU, and Brown. > I met with a brain surgeon from…
This was your initial argument and I'm trying to tell you that there are many reasons by pointing out to some examples. Why is it so hard to understand?
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> It is not in Turkey Hence why I called out Eastern Europe and MENA, though Turks who can afford it do try to target the US instead. For example, all of Erdogan's kids attended IU Bloomington for undergrad and grad school instead of German programs like LMU or TUM, and the Koç family (the family that controls the Turkish economy) sent most of their kids to Stanford, JHU, and Brown. > I met with a brain surgeon from…
> There's no reason to immigrate to Western Europe This was your initial argument and I'm trying to tell you that there are many reasons by pointing out to some examples. Why is it so hard to understand?
There will ofc be people immigrating to Western Europe, and ofc a decent number are skilled, yet at the end of the day, in absolute numbers immigrants trend towards North America over Western Europe, inspite of the difficulty [0].
Immigration, like every product or service follows the law of supply and demand. It is miles easier to immigrate to much of Western Europe simply because the demand, while significant, is not as close to that for North America
If Western European countries wish to attract skilled immigration, they need to understand what truly makes the North American system click.
Australia followed a similar policy after ending the White Australia program in the 1970s and transformed into a truly multicultural country, and that was due to following a program similar to that in North America.
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_...
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I agree. Personally, as someone who chose to come here from the US, I'm perfectly content to learn Dutch. Just as when Mexican immigrants come to the US, there is an expectation that you learn English (and it's quite explicit I might add!). Do you think it would be helpful for governments to enforce more strict "integration" policies to satisfy the worries of the local population? If I'm not mistaken, Denmark has a m…
English is a much more attractive language to learn than Dutch especially if you don't know if you're going to stay in that country for a long time. So, such expectations create bias towards people with already a solid footing in the country.
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There's no recipe policymakers can follow to raise birthrates over extended periods of time. Sweden, South Korea and Poland have all tried generous financial supports that failed; the smaller Soviet republics tried authoritarian methods that failed. Even nineteenth century France & Imperial Rome under Augustus don't appear to have been successful in raising birthrates, although I can't pretend to have great data for…
Which generous financial supports are you talking about?
It's interesting seeing non-immigrants on HN trying to extrapolate immigrant choices as to why they move where they do, and by interesting I mean very reductive and insulting. I'm the child of immigrants, and my family decided to move to the US over Western Europe or Singapore specifically because the opportunities are greater and Americans are way more open-minded about immigrants mixing their home culture with thei…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no recipe policymakers can follow to raise birthrates over extended periods of time. Sweden, South Korea and Poland have all tried generous financial supports that failed; the smaller Soviet republics tried authoritarian methods that failed. Even nineteenth century France & Imperial Rome under Augustus don't appear to have been successful in raising birthrates, although I can't pretend to have great data for…
> generous financial supports Hard disagree. The housing / labor markets systems are fundamentally broken and tossing what is effectively scraps at people won't cause them to have a second child in their one bedroom or move 1.5 hours away from their high status job
In a European context, France has much higher fertility than any of the Nordic countries despite higher unemployment and effectively the same housing affordability stats. More internationally the figures in Israel (pre Oct 2023) and Japan also go against the grain.
It's interesting seeing non-immigrants on HN trying to extrapolate immigrant choices as to why they move where they do, and by interesting I mean very reductive and insulting. I'm the child of immigrants, and my family decided to move to the US over Western Europe or Singapore specifically because the opportunities are greater and Americans are way more open-minded about immigrants mixing their home culture with thei…
Please don't post the exact same comment more than once (the other being https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40317255 ).
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> There's no reason to immigrate to Western Europe This was your initial argument and I'm trying to tell you that there are many reasons by pointing out to some examples. Why is it so hard to understand?
Yes, and I stand by it because this is an extremely common conversation in every single diaspora and I have family and friends who have made this very same decision. There will ofc be people immigrating to Western Europe, and ofc a decent number are skilled, yet at the end of the day, in absolute numbers immigrants trend towards North America over Western Europe, inspite of the difficulty [0]. Immigration, like every…
And this proofs the point that income isnt the only metric for emigration.
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Yes, and I stand by it because this is an extremely common conversation in every single diaspora and I have family and friends who have made this very same decision. There will ofc be people immigrating to Western Europe, and ofc a decent number are skilled, yet at the end of the day, in absolute numbers immigrants trend towards North America over Western Europe, inspite of the difficulty [0]. Immigration, like every…
More people move from US to Europe https://stateofeuropeantech.com/talent And this proofs the point that income isnt the only metric for emigration.
[0] - https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/7938614756940962...