I wonder if this will bring a new widely available high-performance connector to the wider market. SO-DIMM connectors have been occasionally repurposed to other uses, most notably by Raspberry Pi Compute Models 1-3 among other similar SOM/COM boards. RPi CM4 switched to 2x 100pin mezzanine connectors; maybe some future module could use CAMM connectors, I'd imagine they are capable enough
LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
51–60 of 171 posts
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#52Cant wait to see this in a framework laptop
For the presumed improvement to battery life? Because Fw already uses SO-DIMMs.
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#53I’m glad they explained why RAM has become soldered to the board recently. It’s easy to be cynical and assume they were doing it for profit motive purposes (which might be a nice side effect), but it’s good to know that there’s also a technical reason to solder it. Even better to know that it’s been recognized and a solution is being worked on.
I didn't find that a particularly complete explanation - and the slot can't be closer to the CPU because? - I think it must be more about parasitic properties of the card edge connector on DIMMs being problematic at lower voltage (and higher frequencies) or something. Note the solution is a ball grid connection and the whole thing's shielded.
I suppose in fairness and to the explanation it does give, the other thing that footprint allows is a shorter path for the pins that would otherwise be near the ends of the daughter board (e.g. on a DIMM), since they can all go roughly straight across (on multiple layers) instead of a longer diagonal according to how far off centre they are. But even if that's it, that's what I mean by it seeming incomplete. :)
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#54On the other hand, with a reflow station everything becomes modular and repairable. I do hope that a more widespread usage of compressed attachment gives us some development in that area where projects that were promising modular devices failed (remember those 'modular' phone concepts? available physical interconnects were one of the failures...). Sockets for BGAs have existed for a while, but were not really end-use…
> maybe my hope is misplaced and many-contact connections will always be worse than direct attachment
As much as I like socketed / user-replaceable parts, fact is that soldering down a BGA is a very reliable way to make those many connections.
On devices like smartphones & tablets RAM would hardly ever be upgraded even if possible. On laptops most users don't bother. On Raspberry Pi style SBCs it's not doable.
Desktops, workstations & servers are the exception here.
Basically the high-speed parts of a system need to be as close together as physically possible. Especially if low power consumption is important.
Want easy upgrades? Then compute module + carrier board setups might be the way to go. Keep your I/O connectors / display / SSD etc, swap out the CPU/GPU/RAM part.
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#55I would welcome something like Raspberry Pi compute module, that contains CPU+RAM and communicates with other parts via PCIE. This standard can last decades!
Yet another standard for memory will just fail.
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
As I said to the comment above, it makes perfect sense. In 2014 we purchased a dual core Haswell. Almost a decade later I revive the laptop by installing more ram, an SSD and the best possible quad core CPU for that laptop. The gain in processing power were massive and made the laptop useable again.
I'm sure it's all subjective (e.g. I'm sure someone here even considers the original dual core Haswell more than fine without upgrade in 2024) but going from a dual core Haswell to a quad core Haswell (or even a generation or two beyond, had it been supported) as an upgrade a decade after the fact just doesn't seem worth it to me. The RAM/SSD sure - a 2 TB consumer SSD wasn't even a possible thing to buy until a year…
This matches my experience. Every PC I've built over the last 30 years have benefited from memory and storage upgrades through their life, and I've upgraded GPU a few times. However, every time I've looked at upgrading to another CPU with the same socket it is either not a big enough step up, or too much of a power hog relative to the midrange CPU I originally built with. The only time I've replaced CPUs is when I've fried them :)
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#57I’m glad they explained why RAM has become soldered to the board recently. It’s easy to be cynical and assume they were doing it for profit motive purposes (which might be a nice side effect), but it’s good to know that there’s also a technical reason to solder it. Even better to know that it’s been recognized and a solution is being worked on.
The problem is getting manufacturers to implement the new RAM standard. While the justifications given are great for the consumer, I didn't see any reason for a manufacturer to sign on. They are going to lose money when people buy new RAM, rather than a whole new laptop. While processor speeds and size haven't plateaued yet, it's going to take a while to develop significant new speed upgrades and in the meantime, the…
Even if it's just Lenovo using these new modules, I still think it's a win for the consumer (if the modules aren't crazy expensive).
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#58This is fantastic news. Hopefully the cost to manufacturers is only marginal and they find a suitable replacement for their current "each tier in RAM comes with a 5-20% price bump" pricing scheme. Too bad apple is almost guaranteed to not adopt the standard. I miss being able to upgrade the ram in macbooks.
> Too bad apple is almost guaranteed to not adopt the standard. Apple would require multiple LPCAMM2 modules to provide the bus width necessary for their chips. Up to 4 x LPCAMM2 modules depending on the processor. The size of each LPCAMM2 module is almost as big as the entire size of an Apple CPU combined with the unified RAM chips, so putting 2-4 LPCAMM2 modules on the board is completely infeasible without signifi…
> Up to 4 x LPCAMM2 modules depending on the processor.
The non-Pro/Max versions (e.g. M3) uses 128-bits, and arguably is the kind of notebook that mostly needs to be upgraded later since they commonly come with only 8GB of RAM.
Even the Pro versions (e.g. M3 Pro) use up-to 256-bits, that would be 2 x LPCAMM2 modules, that seem plausible.
For the M3 Max in the Macbook Pro, yes, 4 x LPCAMM2 would be impossible (probably). But I think you could have something like the Mac Studio have them, that is arguably also the kind of device that you probably want to increase memory in the future.
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#59Remember that Haswell laptops were the last to feature socketed CPUs. RAM is nice to upgrade, for sure. As well as an SSD, but CPUs are still a must. I would even suggest upgradeable GPUs but I don't think the money is there for the manufacturers. Why allow you to upgrade when you can buy a whole new laptop?
The Framework laptop 16 features replaceable GPU.
> The Framework laptop 16 features replaceable GPU.
In a way I don't mind having non-replaceable ram in the framework ecosystem as an option. Put simply because the motherboard itself is modular and needs to be upgraded for the CPU. At that point though I would prefer on integrated ram CPU/GPU.
Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops
#60Ugh, finally. And it's not just a repurposed desktop memory standard either! The overall space requirements look to be similar to the BGA that you'd normally solder on (perhaps 2-3x as thick?). I'm sure they can reduce that overhead going forward. I love the disclosure at the bottom: Full Disclosure: iFixit has prior business relationships with both Micron and Lenovo, and we are hopelessly biased in favor of repairab…
> Ugh, finally. FYI, the '2' at the end is because this isn't the first time this has been done. :) LPCAMM spec has been out for a while. LPCAMM2 is the spec for next-generation parts. Don't expect either to become mainstream. It's relatively more expensive and space-consuming to build an LPCAMM motherboard versus dropping the RAM chips directly on to the motherboard.
My recollection of this is that LPCAMM was a proposal from Dell that they put into the JEDEC standardization process, and LPCAMM2 is the resulting standard, named that way to avoid confusion with the non-standard LPCAMM that Dell trialed on a small number of commercial systems.