Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

lithub.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 69 posts

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#51

Post by nick238 »

thechao wrote: post #42
t-3 wrote: post #29

Nostalgic - Mongols using silk shirts to make removing arrows easier was a favorite anecdote of my World History teacher in High School. Movies and stories always make pre-gunpowder war seem like a face-to-face battle between warriors, but arrows were always the biggest killer, both in battle and through attrition due to infections and laming. Another anecdote I always remembered was that the lead balls fired by earl…

> but arrows were always the biggest killer Do you remember your source for this? It doesn't sound right. I thought most death/injury occurred when the losing army fled, and the victorious army hunted them down. Also, just mechanically, even moderately sized armies were at least a mile long across their front; there's no way that massed volleys could've been used across the whole front, or even, really, more than a s…

Civil war era muskets fired 14.7mm caliber bullets, and revolutionary war era: 19-20mm, which, bullet-for-bullet probably accounts for the increased danger. Something I read said they have similar energies as modern ammunition--a few thousand joules--but smaller, faster ammo means reduced recoil.

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#52

Post by hinkley »

KineticLensman wrote: post #22
thriftwy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what's the payout for individual soldier to do this to have somebody die after the battle has already ended with win or loss.

It takes the opponent out of the next battle which in a long campaign might improve your chances of getting home alive

It also consumes noncombatants. And it’s psi ops.

Wars end when the enemy loses heart, not sons.

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#53

Post by cbsmith »

JPKab wrote: post #15
cbsmith wrote: post #13

I thought it was all because of a genetic mutation that allowed them to digest milk... https://annemontgomerywriter.com/2022/02/11/the-power-of-mil... .

The article you linked to is highly unscientific and inaccurate. Lactose tolerance emerged 5,000 years ago in Europe. It wasn't brought to Europe via Mongols. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2022/07/dairy-la...

Sorry if it was implied that I thought it was scientific or accurate. My comment was intended to be sarcastic. Every now and then people drag out these weird, "this is why Genghis Khan was so successful" stories.

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#54

Post by cbsmith »

vasco wrote: post #17
cbsmith wrote: post #13

I thought it was all because of a genetic mutation that allowed them to digest milk... https://annemontgomerywriter.com/2022/02/11/the-power-of-mil... .

Guess what, there wasn't a single reason and it was a multitude of reasons and whoever tells you they found the main contributing factor is more likely to just want more attention than they'd get with a more mild version like "this contributed to it".

Yup.

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#55

Post by collingreen »

bmacho wrote: post #43
scott_w wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being good at tactics can win battles. Being good at strategy can win a war. Being good at economy allows you to win war after war.

Being good at religion allows you to be happy for an eternity.

Being good at religion allows you to start war after war

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#57

Post by thechao »

bee_rider wrote: post #47
thechao wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but arrows were always the biggest killer Do you remember your source for this? It doesn't sound right. I thought most death/injury occurred when the losing army fled, and the victorious army hunted them down. Also, just mechanically, even moderately sized armies were at least a mile long across their front; there's no way that massed volleys could've been used across the whole front, or even, really, more than a s…

I agree with the skepticism, I always thought the biggest killer in ancient wars were: * Infections * Getting stabbed as you routed But I don’t understand your logic about the arrows. The width of the line shouldn’t cause some sort of scaling issues. I mean, the army of archers would be limited in the sense that training a ton of archers and making a ton of arrows is expensive, but assuming it is possible to produce…

Massed volley requires putting all of your archers in one (or a few) places. The effective maximum range of an archer is something like 500'. If you put your archers at the "wings", they can cover at most 1000' of line; but, even a modest sized army (I'm thinking of a standard Roman Republic field army) will have a mile wide front.

Secondarily, you need to use your (very expensive!) arrows effectively, and it's hard to see over the people in front of you to shoot someone in the distance. That means, practically, archers are just shooting the soldiers in front of them — soldiers in the nearest 100' or so. That'd only cover 3–500' of line. (This practical consideration was noted by my Military History teacher from his direct observation of battles in Africa.)

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#58

Post by bitcurious »

robertlagrant wrote: post #36
bitcurious wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviets* pretty clearly did not kill all of the civilians in Germany, nor did they attempt to. Unlike the Germans themselves, who exterminated whole towns and had a plan that involved total genocide of their conquered peoples. Pretty wild to miss such an obvious example. *really neither the sins nor the wins in WWII belong exclusively to the Russians. Another subtlety misleading aspect of this post.

> really neither the sins nor the wins in WWII belong exclusively to the Russians. Another subtlety misleading aspect of this post I didn't mention any wins. As for the sins: did you get that despite my listing something the British did and something the Americans did?

Note the context: I corrected your use of “Russians” in favor of “Soviets.”

Re: Silk Helped the Armies of Genghis Khan Conquer Asia

#59

Post by scott_w »

collingreen wrote: post #55
bmacho wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being good at religion allows you to be happy for an eternity.

Being good at religion allows you to start war after war

Neither statement is true. You can’t fanatic your way out of a weak economic base for long and plenty of non-religious people live happy fulfilling lives.
Post reply on HN