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FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

fromjason.xyz

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Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#51
post #50

Hi there, I am on developement team of Newnode, a successor of FireChat founded by two of the same people ( https://www.newnode.com/ ). We now provide both, a VPN and a Messenger, with purpose to help people evade censorship and enable device-to-device connectivity. You can find the source code at https://github.com/clostra/newnode

Can you go into any additional detail about why firechat shut down?

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A antifa relative does not carry their phone with them when they meet, nor do they carry it in their person when attending a rally - they have a friend/lawyer name/number written in a paper with them, just in case some one has to be contacted. At rallies, masked, sun glasses, baseball hat and a couple of shirts

[flagged]

It's not like the US recently saw protestors snatched off the streets in unmarked vans by unidentified forces [1]... or protestors designated terrorists by officials [2]... or widespread deployment of military surveillance on peaceful protestors...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/portland-protests.html [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/copy-city-at...

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#53
post #50

Hi there, I am on developement team of Newnode, a successor of FireChat founded by two of the same people ( https://www.newnode.com/ ). We now provide both, a VPN and a Messenger, with purpose to help people evade censorship and enable device-to-device connectivity. You can find the source code at https://github.com/clostra/newnode

Well now we can put the speculation to rest, exactly how many CIA agents visited to shut down your radical operation??

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, if you are going to take a phone to a protest, buy an Android used at a bodega and don't put anything personal on it. Expect to lose it.

Even then, most burner phones have serial numbers they can track to the sale.

I've bought a fair number of test devices. Nobody at a corner shop or mall phone repair kiosk has ever ID'ed me or kept track of the IMEI of a device I bought.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#55
post #5

It is endlessly depressing to me that the 'revolutionary' tools that so often catch on aren't free and open source.

They almost always start out this way then slowly become figured out and integrated into the corporate machine. And the ones that are centralization-resistant become demonized and/or suppressed by the media. Tor, bitcoin, etc.

The entire history of the internet is basically decentralized protocols being slowly transformed into corporate walled-gardens.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#56
post #30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a combination of LoRa, bluetooth, and WiFi might be the alternative. I've seen videos of LoRA functioning below the noise floor (perfect for evading RF triangulation), and at 200km (perfect for reaching past physical borders). The major weakness is line of sight (and availability), but bluetooth and WiFi can help there.

Theoretically it can't be below the noise floor right? I don’t know much about radio stuff fwiw that just seems impossible by definition

Communication protocols that incorporate spread spectrum (code/direct sequence for GPS and chirp spread spectrum for LoRa) get a "processing gain" at the stage of the receiver where the signal is despreaded. The resulting signal will have an SNR roughly equivalent to a narrow band (non spread spectrum) signal with otherwise the same parameters. You will have a generally equivalent bit error rate for the same SNR.

It's also possible to receive non spread-spectrum signals below the noise floor, if you can observe it over longer time and get additional "processing gain" that way

Additionally, it is a bad idea to use spread spectrum as a means of concealment because if the adversary is physically near enough, your signal will show up above the noise floor. Due to the inverse square law etc, you have a narrow zone of enough power to be received by your remote recipient, but not enough power for closer adversaries to detect you. You are also reliant on the unlikely situation of an adversary without more advanced RF hardware with lower noise receivers.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#57
post #8

It's gone because it was barely usable.

the eulogy also forgets it was a mesh-tweeter public and all, not a mesh end to end private comunication solution people should have been using on those situations.

This critcism is about a decade out of date:

> In 2014, after Hong Kong protesters demonstrated to the world how effective a tool it was, news blogs quickly pointed out that FireChat messages were not secure. By 2015, Open Garden updated the app to include end-to-end encryption,

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then, most burner phones have serial numbers they can track to the sale.

I've bought a fair number of test devices. Nobody at a corner shop or mall phone repair kiosk has ever ID'ed me or kept track of the IMEI of a device I bought.

Interesting. My understanding was that IMEI could be traced to what vendor it was sold to, then they could pull the purchases and either see the card used to buy it, or find the video when the transaction occurred. Guess it depends on whether there is a method to pin which the exact phone without needing to scrub the purchases records.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've bought a fair number of test devices. Nobody at a corner shop or mall phone repair kiosk has ever ID'ed me or kept track of the IMEI of a device I bought.

Interesting. My understanding was that IMEI could be traced to what vendor it was sold to, then they could pull the purchases and either see the card used to buy it, or find the video when the transaction occurred. Guess it depends on whether there is a method to pin which the exact phone without needing to scrub the purchases records.

You are significantly overestimating the level of recordkeeping by random sellers of used and/or ultra-cheap phones. Manufacturers, major retailers, and carriers may keep this information, but bodegas and street vendors certainly do not.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#60
post #50

Hi there, I am on developement team of Newnode, a successor of FireChat founded by two of the same people ( https://www.newnode.com/ ). We now provide both, a VPN and a Messenger, with purpose to help people evade censorship and enable device-to-device connectivity. You can find the source code at https://github.com/clostra/newnode

I think the obvious question is: can you shed any light or provide context on why the service was shut down?

And if not, it seems unrealistic to expect people to adopt / trust your alternative.

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