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Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

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Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#51
post #41
post #37

> games are single threaded. Huh. Not games like Cyberpunk 2077 and it's good that they are not.

Did you read the part where they said that they're a two-person indie game studio with a development cycle of 3-12 months max?

That's not an argument against parallelism in game design in general.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#52

> The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough. You just need to read another 50,000 word fasterthanlime essay. Then you'll not have problems any more. > That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you g…

Sounds like a no-true-Scottsman fallacy

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#53
post #19

As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…

Isn't that just Swift/Kotlin?

The problem with languages is they don't compose. Iow, one missing feature needed automatically invalidates the language entirely. Swift is targeted at Apple platforms and cross platform is an after thought. Kotlin targets JVM and while it is cool in concept, I hate it as a user (and Kotlin native isn't near as mature). If were considering something else at this stage I'd probably put my time into F#, but even it has its cons.

NOTE: By "compose" I mean that if I want feature A, B and C from lang X (has A and B), Y (has B and C) and Z (has A and C), but there is no way to get A, B and C in one language without creating a brand new one. I cannot mix and match features from different languages.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#55
post #19

As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…

I've been hoping to see more languages that compile to Go, it might be the most practical way to arrive at what you want. For example, see Borgo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36847594

I keep toying with the idea of creating one. :-)

Borgo looks neat - hadn't seen it before.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#56
post #11
post #7

Rust is the "frontend wave" of the backends. All the woke kids gravitate towards it. A suffix of "Written in Rust" is a thing here so I'm throwing away my internet points now.

I think most people here understand that a language that is great for kernel development isn't necessarily great for everything else.

It can be though. You should be able to express low-level details but also implement high-level constructs effortlessly should you so choose.

Look at C++, which can both dick with move semantics but also offer multiple inheritance. Even better, look at C#, which has pointer fiddling but also offers the best reflection of any language today.

You're right that Rust is only really good for kernel development but it didn't have to be that way.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#57
> Orphan rule should be optional

That has got to be the most "I didn't think this through" take ever.

While it's a known pain in the ass. Not having it is a bigger pain.

The moment you allow this, you have to find a way to pick between several implementation - and they don't always have sane names.

Orphan rules prevent this from happening.

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#58
post #19

As much as I love Rust I sometimes wonder if I'd be more productive in a simpler language. If I wrote it every day I'm not sure that would be true, but as a hobbyist coming back to Rust sometimes takes me a bit to get back in the zone. Also, still not a fan of async, as it is woefully incomplete and fairly complicated in some use cases. That said, I just can't go back to Go with nil pointers and lack of decent enums/…

Maybe people will make fun of me, but I've been very happy with Kotlin and Dart. Null-safe, good ergonomics, very fast.

I've tried Rust, sometimes play with C, D, Deno/TS, Nim, Java (actually I still write lots of it) and even some more cutting-edge stuff, like Unison. While they're cool, what I want is a language with really good tooling that gets out of my way without letting me write patently dumb code (like Java lets me use any object without checking for null, when it can be null but the language just doesn't give a shit to help me).

I use Dart when I want to compile to binary executable or use Flutter, and Kotlin for stuff I think the JVM has more to offer, like a server. The two languages are just a pleasure to use, pretty similar but having completely different ecosystems (which is great, you can use the best one for the job!).

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#59
post #7

Rust is the "frontend wave" of the backends. All the woke kids gravitate towards it. A suffix of "Written in Rust" is a thing here so I'm throwing away my internet points now.

... complains about people using tropes and tired cliches in posts while using the worst of them, themself

I do not complain. I've seen this trend multiple times by now. First time was with Ruby on Rails I think [1], then the cancer that led us to write JS to output HTML and all the good stuff that came and still manages to pour from npm. Every now and then you can spot the "fashion" out of these things.

Rust is good and has earned its place. I just despise cult-like followings for these languages and technologies.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeZsZEEpno&themeRefresh=1

Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years

#60
post #47
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, nice one! :-) (can only assume you're joking)

Since every other language now has higher order functions and lexical closures and things like that Lisp isn't as special as it used to be. Now it's mostly just a really ugly version of those languages but with a weird emphasis on recursion and a very fancy macro facility. I find I can move between dynamic languages and Scheme pretty easily.

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